Darryl

Well, sorry I haven't had much time to update the thread, but the car is pretty much done. I lost a motor, blew a rear diff from too much power on take off on asphalt, changed a few things and voila, it's here...

Got some seat time and testing done on it this weekend. Springs are a bit on the soft side and no sway bar hooked up yet, but it was a blast. Had several 4400 KOH cars and a trophy truck out on the track last Saturday... It was awesome running out there with them... I could tell I didn't have the 500-800hp they had, but still held my own..

Chopped the throttle a bit too soon on the jump face (causing it to drop the nose on landing), but it was a pretty soft landing overall, then had another quick jump as soon as the car settled, followed by a 180 turn... good test of suspension reaction...

The jump is actually 48ft lip to lip. Got about a 55-58ft jump outta this... Wished I had the angle more from the side to see the actual height and distance better..but I was making the jump just barely shorter than the KOH cars were doing...

Video of it on the course...

PROWLER PROJECTS :: MVI_0278.mp4 video by DarrylD89 - Photobucket

New color....

And here's the predecessor to the Wildcat.....

Getting ready for the Vegas To Reno Race in August...

Class 19, 17 inches rear and 16 inches front travel with King Remote Res Shocks, 100hp, Summers Bros 300M Axles, 28 inch ITP BajaCross Tires, 226ft of 1.75X.095 Chromemoly.

Thanks for the reply Mike, I can agree that we are pretty close now in agreement on much of what is said.

I will tell you one thing that you will like, the new John Deere Gator XUV 825i, uses a Cheery motor, almost the same as the Joyner. Difference is, John Deere does it's own quality control and has made a few design and production changes.

The 3 cylinder in the Gator is by far a better engine than most, just needs to pare down on weight. I like how it sounds more like a small compact car rather than a cycle engine.

Jon's info comes from the original Prowler XTZ release. Joey D with UTVUnderground has a much more thorough review, having attended Arctic Cat's press release rides, which included a multi-day trip to the edge of the Grand Canyon by UTV. Check it out in the latest issue of UTV Off Road Magazine that just hit the newsstands.

I see the future of UTVs being even more exciting, especially with Arctic Cat's new sport machine coming out in June '11 and Deere coming out with a sport machine...

spy shot of new sport Deere...photo taken inside quanset huts at Deere's Washington test facility.

Desert runner based on an XUV825i, built by DragonFire Racing for Deere...

Thanks for the discussion Mike...

Darryl, good response to my post and what that tells me is that I need to research and quote on only the latest model released. You deserve an in-depth explanation on my ratings and that’s just what I will give you. What I have said still stands, all be it a bit reckless in not quoting the latest model and most powerful engine in it’s line up. I was lazing in quoting older models to speed my post up. I was reckless yes, but not subjective of my own opinions, very much based on specifications and performance for each model I quoted.I was quoting a 09 Rhino 700 so had a look at the upgrades and not a lot has changed. Those marks stand.

The A.Cat I quoted on was also out of date. It was the A.Cat Prowler 700XTX from a couple of years ago. I didn’t think much of it then, but with the 2011 updates and a new model called a 700HDX, it is a far more capable machine, but still a lot I don’t like.

The Gator, Club Car and Ranger were all based on the latest model available.

I suspect that in your post, you are talking about the A.Cat XTZ with the 950cc engine. With this engine you would rank higher in 9 – Big Time Horsepower, but I would like to pick up on a few things you have said.

All UTVs should have a winch and I quoted on that. The A.Cat XTZ has got only 10” of ground clearance, it needs a winch, no amount of H.P will pull you out if you have beached the bottom and with only 10” you will find it beached often in my terrain.

The Gator rates higher for hunting because of it’s higher towing and payload capacity. UTV Guide rate the A.Cat XTZ 950cc, 3 out of 10 for centre of gravity rating and that is very poor. This rating is bad, due to the low ground clearance and very high seat height of 34” . What will happen if you are loaded to your limit with a couple of hogs or deer in the tray and you go around a corner to fast? That’s why I said it’s good for birds and rabbits.

Why did I give the Prowler 3 out of 10 for Cab Enclosures and Windshields. I’m in the business of selling enclosures and windshields . I have asked my manufactures about the Artic Cat and why we don’t stock them and it comes down to numbers. There is not a lot of call for them. John Deere on the other hand is well catered for by us and every other enclosure manufacture out there. We sell 10 different J.Deere enclosure configurations in 5 different colours (that = 50 J.D Enclosures)

including 3 Camo colours. We have no Artic Cat enclosures, however I wished we did. We will be adding Artic Cat this year.

The fuel economy for the A.Cat 700 or 950cc models is far poorer than the Gators, that means either you go further with the Gators superior fuel economy or you need to carry fuel cans for the Cats at the risk of tainting your game.

The Gator and Cat can not compete against the Club Car’s Intellitach system for attachments and the Cat gets a low score because of it’s poor quality and strength with it’s receiver hitch.

As you sell both models, I hope this gives you food for thought anyway.

Personal, I don’t like Rhinos or Artic Cats so am I one eyed? Could be, but the problem is you can not hide or change each UTV’s specifications. Specs are facts and I have only used specs on each vehicle.

See http://www.utvguide.net/utv_comparison.htm and look on the comparison chart. When you read this, UTV Guide agrees with what I say about the Prowlers. The Cat had the lowest ground clearance the lowest score for centre of gravity, dam near the highest price. Further reading below this adds against the Prowler, a minus on weight, minus on seat height, they gave it a minus on width, I’ll disagree and give it a thumps up here, a minus on locking/unlocking the diff and a big minus for it’s hitch (I would not tow an empty trailer with a A. Cat).

Given what you said about the bench seat option, I did not know that and will add another 7 points. Big time H.P another 1. There is no beating the fact that you have 5 pro hunting guides that have brought Artic Cat Prowlers off you, so I’m willing to up Hunting up to a solid 8. That gives you a total of 51 out of 90.

Sorry Darryl, but there it is.

Cheers Mike.

Nothing to be sorry about. I still disagree with you on much. i know Jon Crowley of UTVGuide.net. His comparisons are outdated, most of them based on older machines and as evidenced by many more recent arcticles and tests, the Prowler isn't as bad on center of gravity as you stated. In fact, before it shut down, SideXSide Action Magazine did a test between a Prowler XTZ, a RZR-S and a Teryx Sport. The Prowler won. It was the fastest around the race track of the 3. Yes, it sits higher, but the testors also said it was the most predictable of the 3 on corners and was easy to control if you pushed it too far.

As for the engine power, even the Prowler XTX 700 is rated at 54 horsepower. Still up there. And ground clearance, the others are within an inch of the Prowler in GC. Plus, the Arctic Cat is the only one that features a ride in suspension, which is very similar in reaction to what a desert race car does. If you want to, you can do the same as the Gator and Ranger, and crank the suspension right up there to 13 inches ground clearance, much more than the Gator or Ranger are capable of.

Why a minus on weight for the Prowler, it is much lighter than the Gator and the same as the Ranger. If you compare it to the RZR, then yes, the RZR is a much lighter machine. But the RZR can't carry much load. And I don't know where you are getting the fuel economy ratings, the Prowler 1000 easily gets 140 miles off it's tank of 8 gallons, about the same as the Ranger.

Cabs, I've sold lots of cabs for the Prowlers. Curtis Cab makes them, Mammoth makes them, Seizmik makes them and AC makes 2 versions for them. I know, I'm a dealer for all those and I also sell cabs for other brands.

Oh, and the winch, Arctic Cat uses Warn winches. And the Cats are the easiest to wire up and install of most brands...I know, I sell Warn and other brands and we do a lot of installs on other brands.

Top that off with the fact that ATV Magazine just chose the Arctic Cat XTZ as it's machine of the year in the sport/work combo field. Over Can Am, over Ranger, over Rhino, over Gator XUV825i, over them all....

Oh, and try to load 1000lbs in the Ranger, it squats bad compared to the Gator. And in the pull drag test, the Ranger burned out their belt after two drag sled pulls, the Gator pulled several times further. The Cat's pull great too, and I don't know where you get your info on the hitch, the Cat uses a 2" receiver compared to most others 1.25" receiver. The Cat's is tough and even comes standard with a front 2" hitch.

I have spent many years, invovled with UTV's, from evaluating them, testing them and building them. For Stevens use, I would rate them Gator XUV825i first, Prowler HDX second, Ranger third, and the others (Prowler XTZ included) woudn't even receive a rating.

But as I said, the real test is in the Dealer.

We will all have our opinons and thoughts, but look at a much wider base of technical data and testing, look at more recent testing results. Early on, Cat didn't have the best repoire with testors and it showed. But now, Cat has earned the respect of many magazine test folk and writers. Joey DiGiovanni has written many positive articles in UTV Off-Road magazine and on UTVUnderground.com. I know Joey and Jon Crowley, and we have chatted often on these. In fact, some of the photos that Jon used in his UTVGuide articles on the Prowler, were my photos, as I had access to them before many in the magazine field. I helped Joey D get his demo Gator to use around his ranch in Cali. I have contacts to the folks in the know in John Deere and Arctic Cat. In fact, you will probably see my name invovled with race programs from AC and maybe in the future from John Deere (yes, John Deere is getting into desert racing with a full team, they will have a sport version Gator out very soon, and I can say it's awesome...specs that'll blow most out there away).

I have done a reasonable amount of research into the pros & cons of each UTV model against each other and feel I can add a bit here. I’m also a Joyner man through and through, so will only comment on the mentioned models.

Of the UTV models mentioned so far you can forget the Rhino for your needs. It would score high on 4,5,6 in standard form and 9 with big time $. The Rhino would score low on 1,2,3,7,8 and 9. (9 in standard form) The Rhino gets a 10 for cab enclosures and windshields because this UTV is well catered for with all aftermarket parts.

The Prowler would score high on 1 if it was just for small game like birds and rabbits. The Prowlers weakness is towing, hauling and poor quality and strength with it’s receiver hitch. The only thing going for a Prowler is good power.

The John Deer Gator 825i is the real deal for hunting. It scores highly for all you needs. The engine is very solid and is built to last. It has a good size tray, power to tow and load your bed. Out of the five so far, this would be my pick. The engine in this Gator, separates it from all other Gators and takes it to a new level.

Now the Club Car 1550. Really happy to see one of it’s owners on UTV Boards. These machines are true work horses and the only reason it did not beat the John Deere is the low score for enclosures & windshields (you can get them, but they are more expensive and you have a small choice compared to the Gator) and it is down on power from the Gator. The Kubota Diesel in the Club Car is a mighty engine and what it looses in speed it makes up for in low down power. The Intellitach system gives this UTV a 10 out of 10 for requirement 5.

I did the Ranger on it’s 800 2011 model. Other Ranger models in past years would of scored a lot lower. It would of come in front of the Gator if it wasn’t for the powerful Gator engine. The best engine out of the whole lot and one that will be going the longest is the Gators. You could drive this for decades I reckon.

I’ll rate the models mentioned below from 1 to 10.

1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---Out of a poss. 90

6---2---2---9---9--10--2---1---4--- Rhino=45

6---3---1---6---6---3---4---3---8--- Prowler=38

8---9---8---8---9---9---9---9---9--- JD 825i=77

8---8---8---8--10--3---9---9---7--- Club Car 1550=70

8---9---8---8---8--10--9---9---7--- Polaris Ranger=76

1.Hunting

2.Hauling material (in bed and trailer)

3.Possible multiple passengers

4.Needs winch

5.I will need attachments (mowing attachment, ploughing attachments, disc attachments, etc)

6. possible windshield and cab enclosure

7. tilt bed with 600 bed weight capacity

8. towing capacity 1000 lbs.

9. big time horsepower

Steven, sorry to here about your friend and I hope this help you make up your mind. You might also like to look at some websites like http://www.utvguide.net/ but they will always be one eyed towards the big brands. Specifications speak volumes.

Cheers Mike

Mike, I beg to differ with your analysis greatly. There are many areas in your evaluation that seem to be subjective of your own opinons.

You rate the Prowler only a 6 on hunting while the Gator and others rate 8. I have 5 customers that are professional hunting outfitter guides, they all chose the Prowler over the others. I will agree, the XTZ and XTX only carry 600lbs, but the HDX Prowler, which is geared to compete against the John Deere and the Ranger, also carries 1000lbs and has Fox Adjustable Shocks. The John Deere Gator XUV825i can have the Fox Shocks put on as it is an option.

Possible cab enclosure, you only gave the Prowler a 3??? Why, there are more cab options both thru AC and aftermarket for a cab than there are for a Gator.

And cheaper priced at that. Seizmik and AC both produce nice soft cabs, and AC has a hard cab available.

And the Prowler has a bench seat option as does the Gator, but the Ranger has the 6 seat option, but at a major sacrifice to off-road capability.

And why would the Prowler need a winch, it has more wheel travel and about the same ground clearance as the others, plus it uses detroit locker style diffs. Why do you think that most magazine testors say the Cat is the best mud machine out there.

And horsepower... you really are off base there, the Cat XTZ produces approx 70hp, the John Deere XUV825i produces 55, the Ranger makes 52 to 54hp.

And you list that the Prowler has less attachments than the others... AC has lots more attachments than the Gator or Club Car.

I didn't speak much about the club car because it's not really much competition in this market. I do know what I'm talking about with the others, I'm a John Deere and Arctic Cat dealer as well as having spent much time in the seat of a Ranger and have been involved with UTV development.

The John Deere Gator XUV825i, Prowler HDX or XTZ and the Ranger would all be good, viable options for Steven. He needs to go to each dealer and drive them, talk with the dealers and find what he feels most comfortable with. He needs to talk to customers of those dealers and find out which ones stand behind their product and will support him as the consumer. That is probably more important than almost any other factor in choosing a side-by-side.

A great machine can be ruined by a bad dealer.

Steven, it's been a few months since you first requested opinons, I do hope you have talked with many dealers and have or are finding good dealers that will take care of you and your UTV needs.

Just a Little FYI, Yammaha Rhino's may be having a re-call on their machines, especially the used ones. Alot of death's and accidents reported. Not trying to discourage, but been reading a few articles about it, and poor design. It tips easy, (from what I'm reading and doing research on)

For hunting or utility purposes, the Yamaha Rhino is far from being the best machine. It only has a 400lb bed capacity and doesn't have a 2inch receiver hitch as which most aftermarket rear implements need.

1.Hunting

2.Haulling material (in bed and trailer)

3.Possible multiple passengers

4.Needs winch

5.I will need attachments (mowing attachment, plowing attachments, disc attachments, etc)

6. possible windshield and cab enclosure

7. tilt bed with 600 bed weight capacity

8. towing capacity 1000 lbs.

9. bigtime horsepower

Based on what you are looking for, I would say, you need to look at either a Polaris Ranger, Arctic Cat Prowler HDX or John Deere XUV 825i. All 3 of these machines have 600-1000lb bed capacity, are suitable and outfittable for hunting, have rear implement attachments available, have 44mph+ top speeds and have the ability to use receiver mounted winches that can be wired to work both in front and back. All 3 have bench seating available for 3 persons.

So give serious thought to these 3 before accepting the Rhino. The Rhino is a fair sport and light utility machine, but not near having the capabilities that you requested.

Not true. We were in the open area and were visited by the local ranger. No problem from or with our play weekend.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

But the powerline pics are north of the open area by quite a ways. You may have been in the Limited OHV Area, but that means you are restricted to maintained roads and designated trails, of which there are none right now, the trails in the limited area are all shut down until further notice by the BLM.

We are trying to get the BLM to put in the 38 mile UTV loop that had been planned for several years and also to reopen the trails that they recently shut down pending review.

There was no rally at the glades.. you must have us mistaken for some other group? we were just a few friends getting together for a weekend trail ride and bullshit session anyhow Looks can be decieving? I am pretty sure the powerline pictures were taken at a area in Arizona beforehand and were lumped on my camera.. as far as all videos go they were all taken within 200 yards of our camp, and well within our right to ride on, I am not here to argue about whats right or wrong, it happened and if we broke any rules then contact me and let me know what damages there were incured, but as far as I am concerned there were no rules broken and nobody to be there to say yes or no that they were

Great answers.... lets keep them as that..

My concern is if anyone complained to the BLM about illegal UTV riding. We have had several major issues over the last couple of years that have caused a conflict to arise with mtn-bikers and horseriders in the Glade. Right now, the Glade is under review and there are no trails open for motorized riding outside of the Open OHV Area down at the southern end of the Glade. And for nobody being there to, all the Rangers were at an organized event on the south side of Farmington....so consider yourself lucky. The Rangers here drive modified RZR-S's and Yamaha Raptors, so there wouldn't be an issue of outrunning them. Who ever it was that was local and guiding you, should've known that anything north of the intersection at Brown's Spring was off-limits except for running in the Glade Sandwash itself.

I'm not saying anyone damaged anything, I just wanted to let everyone know for future riding. Nationwide, if we don't start fighting closures, we all will lose our riding areas. And riding in illegal areas, even though I don't condone those closures, can adversely affect all of our riding areas.

Bottom line is, we all need to work together to keep our riding areas open.

We all had our camping permit, I know I for one picked mine up personally friday at the office out there, As far as the off limits places I had a map but the map they gave me at the office was kinda shitty and hard to make heads or tails of, Our guide on the tour was someone there from farmington, and I am sure he knows what and where to ride, if not then it happens.. No excuses though I know I for one will never head back out to Farmington, a big haul from me from Texas, I would like to see it somewhere else next year, or group it in with an organized event of some sort, maybe Moab utv rally..

Glad you had yours. The photos from under the powerlines is way north of the open area and illegal for off-road travel. The video in the sandwash was also north of the open area. I guess the rally in the glade was somewhat an informal one though, which was good since no permits for an organized rally were issued (the issuing officer was at the dunes all day and wasn't aware of a rally going on).

Contact Kyle at Rally On The Rocks and see if he can accomodate you all next year at his rally in Moab. He puts on a great rally that has lots of events, good trailrides and lots of vendors.

I hate to tell you guys, but judging from the photos you posted, you all were riding in a limited use area, not legal for off-road travel. Right now, were are engaged in a fight to keep our riding areas in the Glade open. Someone from the group should've obtained a map from the BLM or from online to see what areas are open to riding off-road. That access route under the powerlines is not allowed for travel. There were carsonite posts installed surrounding the Open OHV area, advising that riding out of those boundries was limited to maintained roadway travel only.

Not trying to spoil the party, I for one want to see our trails opened back up, but if anyone saw you up in the limited use area, I'm sure the BLM's phones are ringing off the hooks this morning. Also, the BLM requires permits to camp in the Glade Run Rec Area. The BLM Rangers were all over at The Dunes for the OHV Open House that was being there, so that kept you from encountering them. But you definitely don't want to get caught riding off-road in a limited use area.

I would hate to see this excursion be used as an additional reason to shut down all of the Glade to all OHVers. Did the Farmington contacts check all this out and advise everyone before the invite?

The Farmington are is home to many world class off-roading areas, the Choke Cherry Glade area was even televised on Extreme 4X4 TV this past weekend on Spike and we even host the WEROC National Rock Crawling Championships, but there are limited use areas that are in contention right now with battles going on between mtn-bikers, ranchers, OHVers and Jeepers. It would be good to find all pertinent info on an area before using. Anyone that wants to come to this area for riding, I would be happy to get them all the needed info for OHV use and might even be available to show them around and get them to some of the more fun trails.

Below is the link to the BLM Use Map for the Glade Run Rec Area and a link to the BLM site for the Glade. Please, do post positive comments to the BLM about keeping the riding areas open and that fact that many of you traveled from out of state to visit the Glade. Help us keep this area open for future OHV use by voicing positive comments.

Map

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nm/programs/recreation/rec_docs.Par.57110.File.dat/brochure_map_2.pdf

BLM Glade Site

Glade Run Recreation Area

Plan/Use Review Glade Site

GRRA Improvement Public Forum

Hi all,

I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is an OHV Open House going on Saturday, June 12th over at The Dunes on the Bisti Hwy, just going south out of Farmington. I runs from 9am till 3pm. There are going to be dealers there with demo machines, different agencies that oversee OHVing in NM and some good riding.

Come over and check it out since you all are going to be in Farmington.

Also, keep in mind, Saturday, June 12th, in the Glade, there is going to be the Midnight Madness MtnBike Ride for Childhaven Charity. So keep your eyes out for bike riders, lets not have any conflicts, just good times and good fun.

Hope to see you all this weekend...

Darryl

Couple more photos...

Got the ITP Beadlocks on, just waiting on the King Shocks to give it a few inches lift, and yes, it was rode hard and put away dusty...

More pics...It's not done by any means, next comes the ITP Beadlock wheels, 1/4 doors, low windshield with fold out upper, King Shocks which will lift it a couple more inches, and lots of hidden goodies..

Buddy of mine that stands way over 6ft... said it's the most comfortable fit he's ever had.

Pics of XTZ in progress... should be done in another week. It'll have King Racing Shocks, Beard Super TZ full containment seats, ITP Beadlock wheels with ITP BajaCross 8 ply tires, Fabworx racing cage minus the door bar, 1/4 doors by Fabworx, redesigned spare tire carrier, oh and the seats are lowered 4 inches. And lots of frame bracing too. 13 inches ground clearance with 13 inches wheel travel.

More pics tomorrow..

Side view before bracing is added

Rear shot with some of the bracing tacked in place

Beard Super TZ seat (driver's side) that's replacing OEM Highback seat (passenger side)

Beadlocked ITP Wheels and Tires

Comparison of lowered passenger seat versus unlowered seat

Few more pics of the cage after painting and the lowered tire carrier...

Grab Handles

Lowered Tire Carrier