2scoops

ok. We will talk this with the axle supplier and try to get some improvements of CV boots.

I see there is a design to add a sheet metal ahead the axle to protect the boots.

It is poor rubber chemistry which is causing them to go bad. As a matter of fact, every piece of rubber on my Trooper is cracking. I hope this has been addressed on your buggys.

Tell me where to measure and I'll get that for you. Its 1/2 inch clearance from the top surface of the axle to where it would meet with the bottom side of the top trailing arm bar.

Oooo, oooo, that is what I am talking about! See all of the space between the axle and the trailing arm--that is all untapped travel waiting to be used! I ended up with over 13.5 inches of travel with my Fox 8.5" shocks. That is without lowering the rear diff. I did have to remove the fenders though.

There has been many discussions on aftermarket shocks; and for the most part; the guys who have really gone into modifying and fabrication on their Troopers are the only ones giving specs. But I'm wondering (and I'm sure many others are too) What specs do we use for replacing our stiff old squeeky nitrogen charged junk stock shocks with modern high tech "mushy" shocks that enables us to drink a cup of coffee while going down a bumpy trail at 40 mph. (Not literally of coarse) Whether ordering King Shocks, or Fox, or FOA, or Rancho, or Bilstien, etc. ; we've discussed valving, travel, preload, rebound, dual spring rates, limiting straps, etc, etc. But it doesn't mean we all understand the technology of shocks. I know there are many options, but there must be a base line. For instance: I don't think if we have the right shocks, we should have to use limiting straps, or lower the diff, or modify the shock mounts. Can someone just say "Here's what I have. It works great on a "stock" Trooper. Order aftermarkets using this information." Shocks are way too expensive to get a number wrong in ordering. Thanks in advance guys

Are people using limiting straps with the Kings? I was under the impression that they WERE the only bolt on option which required no modification, and they should install themselves for $2600. People HAVE said the Kings work great, so just contact Silverbullet or one of the other vendors and they'll take care of you. Ahhhh, now you are going to mention price--this is he exact same feelling the rest of us had. Welcome to the downward spiral of uber-complicated suspension modification that is the Joyner Trooper.

I think the main reason many of us have modified the stock suspension is because we saw much potential beyond just changing shocks.

I have already posted a ton of info here, but you have probably already read it:

http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2117-new-shocks/page__st__40

Also, I can tell you that although the rear corners of the trooper weights have been documented around 480 & 520, there is actually about 800lbs of pressure on the rear shocks due to leverage of the swingarm in its stock location. When I put a sole 400lb spring on it compressed 2 inches. Thus if you put an 800lb spring on it should compress 1 inch. Although I have modified my front suspension, the angle of the shock only changed by about 10 degrees. I found that a 100lb spring compressed 4 inches. Thus, there is 400lbs of pressure on the front shocks. Now, you consider most Troopers only have about .25 to .5 inch of droop on the stock shocks when static, you can start to see why it feels so stiff. They have probably taken a 350 lb spring (front) & a 600 lb spring (rear) and preloaded it so that the trooper retains its factory rated ground clearance. Well, doing this made it stiff. There is probably around 1000lbs of presure on the rear shock and around 600 in the front. So, if you want to make it instantly softer, just back off the preload. Understand you will then lose ground clearance as the shocks compress. This is why some of us have been seeking more droop in the suspension, so we can have a soft ride, not lose ground clearance, and overall have more travel.

I suggest you take the info from this forum and combine it with one afternoon in the garage. Take your stock shocks off and see exactly how much travel you are comfortable with squeezing out of YOUR suspension (I removed my fenders completely to maximize it). I say this because there is more to be had depending on what you are willing to sacrifice. Get your measurements and find a shock with the right lengths in extended and compressed positions. Also, you will want to determine how much droop you want on the shock shaft. Then, you can figure out your spring rates. Or, you can use what King suggests. Make sure they know you are looking for a HEAVY Joyner Trooper though. Most of the companys I talked to assume it is a Joyner Sand Spider or something and suggest rates which are way too low.

Just wondering, has anyone checked the spark plugs after a hard work out? That would tell us if it is running overly rich and just wasing fuel.

Dick

I am not a timing/fuel mixture/air ratio guru, but it seems the extra torque developed at low end by this controller is due to the extra gas being pumped in the cylinder. Take that away and you lose the torque gained from using this fuel controller. It is a fair trade off to me.

I can't quantify the difference this controller makes, but I didn't notice much of a difference in acceleration. It was all low end. In Moab, the first day out my left foot instinctively kept reaching for the clutch when I would come up to an obstical. In the past I had two options: get some momentum and overtake the obstical, or slowly hit it and manipulate the clutch and gas to get over it. By the middle of the first day in Moab with the fuel controller, I started to get acustommed to it. I found I could hit an obstical slowly, then just use all gas pedal to get over it. It was very similar to an automatic.

I was really worried that I had purchased to big & heavy of a tire (30" 540 Dominators) and that I might regret the power & torque loss. When the tires arrived at my door, they were way heavier than I anticipated. After the Moab trip, well,I will never go to anything smaller--they were awesome! Made my buddys RZR S look like a remote control car. I attribute this all to the fuel controller.

He has me beat more then 2:1. But, mine has twice the HP so I only have to go half as far for equal fun.

Lenny

I would like to know what hp you end up getting out of that supercharger.

Mine is at 1326. Bought it with about 800 km on it. I have some catching up to do.

Time to size them up boys. After looking at Kinarfi's impressive 6800 KM's logged on his Trooper, it really got me wondering--does anyone have more than that?

2scoops, are talking about the diff? The diff blew up! Front or rear?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Rocmoc, are you skipping posts again? I was being facetious in response to the Joyner owners manual warning. I am guilty of messing with the 4x4 while the vehicle is moving. Usually due to the fact that I was trying to get it to engage cause it wouldn't at a standstill. Never had anything bad come out of it, especially to the extent of the "vehicle being destroyed".

Agree with everyone including how Lenny says the locking works. I have a diff apart and I will try to post pics & measurements.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

That would help alot--thanks.

WARNING

The vehicle can be destroyed if you ignore the following:

ALWAYS FULLY STOP THE VEHICLE BEFORE CHANGING BETWEEN 2WD AND 4WD.

Bad news guys. I was rolling foward at about 3mph and tried to engage the 4x4. Luckily, I was wearing my fire retardant suit and a helmet--the trooper blew up and is now completely destroyed!

Gotta love the Chinese interpretation.

Thanks Rick, thanks Lenny.

It seems to me I may be having an alignment issue. Maybe there is some damage in there. Without having an owners manual in front of me, is our 4x4 system designed to be engaged on the fly? What instructions does it give on engaging the 4x4 system?

I didn't get any photos after I fixed it, bummer.

here's the first of several, zoom in on photos and you see the corrosion from water inside the case, I fixed mine, painted my motor because it had corrosion, and put it back together and sealed it real good and I'm still running it, In my opinion, if it was available for the lockers, I would use it there also. -- I like it being electrical!!

Yeah, mine was a brand new box when I bought the trooper. The previous owner I believed replaced it cause he didn't think anyone would buy it without the 4x4 working. It worked OK when I first got it, but it was still intermittent/finicky. But then after a while I could hear the motor constantly trying to engage/disengage--then it finally burnt out. Being in 4x4 the entire Moab trip was a real fun killer. I couldn't whip the tail end around and powerslide.

Mine already had the manual lever when i purchased it.Looks like they installed it after arriving here for assembly cause where the mechanism was installed next to the diff locker levers area where they welded it on was not painted.I have heard of people having problems with their electric actuator and thought about the door lock actuators on cars.I installed some on a vehicle of mine some time ago and if i remember they seemed like they would be powerfull enough and cheap.

So no issues with your manual 4x4 going in & out? No delays?

I am trying to figure out if I should tear my front diff down and take a look as to why it is so finicky.

Ok, so I built a manual 4x4 shifter for my Moab trip. Worked great in the garage when on jacks. Engaged/disengaged, spun the wheels, engaged/disengaged. Then, I got out in the dirt and it wasn't reliable. It just didn't want to in & out of 4x4. So, as I have read in some posts, a few members pointed the original problem with the 4x4 as being the electric actuator--which is a POS. I could hear my electric actuator constantly trying to engage & disengage--to the point of the motor burning up. I believe some pointed to the internal limiting switch. So, I thought a manual mechanism would fix my issue. Now my issue seems to be the internal workings (I have never had my front diff apart) of the front to be the issue. It seems to be real finicky about being precisely aligned when there is any kind of load on the diff.

I know others have built manual 4x4 mechanisms. Has anyone experienced similar issues? Is there a trick to get it to reliably go into 4x4 or does it slide in nice & easy?

Lastly, once I figure out if it is just MY front diff being the issue, I have been playing around with the ideas of an air actuated front 4x4. I am thinking of installing a powertank under the hood anyway and I stumbled across this:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/22/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/132/Default.aspx

Or electric:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/32/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/236/Default.aspx

I wish I could make it and meet all of the trooper legends, but it is just not in the cards for me this year. My summer is uber-packed with family events.

I played around with my rear suspension tonight and came up with some interesting figures. I wanted to put pen to paper/keystroke to computer before I forget.

I have not lowered my rear diff. With my 8.5 inch Fox shocks bolted in the stock location I had 13.75 inches of rear wheel travel on the right side (limited by the CV shaft contacting the swingarm). There was 1.25 inches of shaft showing at this point. The right side had 15 inches of rear wheel travel (limited by my 30 inch tire contacting the frame). There was .75 inches of shaft showing. Keep in mind I have removed my rear fenders and the bracket to which they bolt in order to achieve this much up-travel.

FYI- with 400lb springs, my rear shocks compressed 2 inches. This info can help you determine your spring rates. I am still working on a good rear dual spring rate for my application.

As for my front shocks I am running an 8 inch 250 over a 10 inch 225 with 1.25 inches of preload. I am very happy with this and I don't plan on changing. The only other rate I would consider would be a straight 250lb spring. My front end is super soft. It does lean like a tropy truck in a turn with the dual rate. If you don't want this then I would go with a 250 or 300 lb. With 30 inch tires there is 14 inches between the ground and the bottom of the front of my frame. I have about 3.5 inches of droop.

Would we benefit from a 3 link like the rzr xp and can we fab one for our machines. It seems this design would help eliminate some east west movement in the trailing arm and help prevent broken welds.

Yes and yes. I have been thinking about re-engineering the rear trailing arm since I noticed my right rear wheel is misaligned by 1". Now I have another reason since your mishap in Moab. I do like the design of the RZR XP after seeing it. I took some measurements from one of the rental RZR XP's in Moab. I was suprised to find that the trailing arm on the XP was significantly longer than ours. It was about 35+ inches long. If our trailing arm was that long I think we could get 15" or more of rear wheel travel (with new shocks of course). We would only be limited by the CV joints and the tire contacting the chassis (at least if you are running over 27" tires). Also, as you recall pointing out on my Trooper in Moab, the current design limits our travel because the CV shaft contacts both the upper and lower tubes of the trailing arm when fully compressed and at full droop (with 8.5 inch or longer shocks). I probably won't get serious about this project until next winter when the Trooper will have alot of down time. Let me know if and when you are going to do something with yours and we will exchange ideas.

Or is it one like this http://himni-racing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=48

I think they are the same or similar. I guess the price of the one at Tobefast is due to the programmer and wiring harness. Still seems a little steep to me.

no,I don't think they are the same as the CVT belt transmission we using now .. we will show you the new transmission when it is availble .

It will be a difficult task to execute a CVT which will properly work in our Troopers at 1800lbs but not impossible. I truely hope it can be done. We will be very skeptical of its strength and reliability, so please make information available on your website (schematics, testing, video, etc). We won't by transmission that doesn't feel factory so someone will HAVE to test it on a Joyner Trooper. If it proves to work well I believe you will sell many.

Klung Motors responded to one of my emails about an E manage computer. It appears to be the exact same computer seen here:

http://www.tobefast.com/joyner-1100-trooper-computer-c-63650-p-1-pr-10000958-f-64523.html

He quoted me $350

Is there going to be a controller/cam pre-tuned package? I would love to buy the both of them. How much money should I put aside for both? Is this controller discussed in another thread more? I have a power commander on my snowmobile I assume it is simmilar to that? I am working night shift but I will try to call today for some info. I would love to get some more bottom end power having 30 inch mud lite XXL's on it.

Thanks,

Tony

My driveway is a 20% incline and my trooper idles up it at 900 rpm with the 30" 540 dominator tires. The tires are also about 15-20lbs heavier a piece than the stockers. My trooper needed some pedal input to climb the driveway before with the 27" stock tires. In Moab, there were obsticals I would normally have to manupulate the clutch to get over. With the fuel controller I was able to let my left foot take a nap & just used the gas pedal. My fuel consumption did go up about 30-40%.

did you do any adjusting on the fuel controller or leave it at factory settings? Much more fuel consumption?

Significantly more fuel consumption. After riding with Banjo Minnow all day when he was at about 1/2 tank I was close to empty. I didn't touch the fuel controller from the factory settings. I was happy with it. I may play around with it later. My driveway is a 20% incline and my trooper idles up it at 900 rpm with the 30" tires. The tires are also about 15-20lbs heavier a piece than the stockers.

FYI we are headed to Moab tomorrow. If anyone will be in the area let me know so we can plan a ride together.

Moab was a blast! Thanks to Landon & his group for showing me some new trails.

Trails done:

Hells Revenge (wife drove)

Poison Spider

Hey Joe Canyon

Fins & Things

Determination Towers

& more

Obsticals:

Hells Gate

Tip Over Challenge (entire family on board)

Car wash (wife drove)

V-Notch

The Waterfall

& countless steep walls

Carnage:

Lt front CV boot kept pulling off. I think it was due to the new long travel suspension at full droop in a hard turn. Gotta figure that one out.

Notes:

New suspension was super soft, but I need to work on the rebound & compression valving.

Fuel controller worked great. I only stalled the Trooper twice the entire trip. Once on Hells Gate & once in Hey Joe Canyon--both were avoidable

Thanks 2 scoops. How bout some pics for inspiration?

Posted some pics in my gallery.

Done! Posted some pics in my gallery. Moab here I come!