Quantcast
Jump to content


2021 UTV 400 going downhill something releases to "Neutral" loud Clacking noise.


Robert B

Recommended Posts

On 9/16/2023 at 4:34 PM, Robert B said:

Going down a 20 deg hill engine is holding UTV back. Then something releases like going into Neutral and makes a loud clacking noise. Have to use brake to slow UTV down. Then once level it shifts back into gear. Have done shift extension does not pop out of gear.

Strange ... I had a similar problem. My UTV always seemed to hold back going down hill except one time it started to run away on me and I had to apply the brakes. The only difference was, no clanking noise. I didn't notice if it seemed to slipped out of gear by checking the dash lights, but then again, I was distracted by the speed and slowing it down. I will pay more attention and update if this happens again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Greg Kilgore said:

Possibly the one-way bearing is slipping or warn.

That is what hold the machine back.

Yikes ... I have to get out there again and try mine out. I have less than 11 hours and 30 miles on mine and hope that's not my problem. I wouldn't even know where to start to replace that bearing.

Rob, keep us updated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Update on slippage in transmission. Don't use synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil. Thought I was doing a good thing by using UTV/ATV semi-synthetic oil. Owners manual states if you use high quality oil it might cause clutch slippage. Changed motor oil and used Dollar General conventional motor oil 10W-30 and raised idle speed to around 1700 RPM. Most of the issue is gone, will change oil again after I put some hours on the current oil.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regular car oil doesn't have the stuff needed to keep wet clutch lubed like it needs 

Just make sure the oil rated "JASO MA" or "MA2".

Synthetic or conventional is up to you.

I read somewhere that the "MA2" rating is for engine exhaust with a cat and O2 sensor.

And I think the synthetic lets the clutch slip more than conventional. If there is a lot of miles on the clutch with conventional oil. Then switched to synthetic. The clutch is more likely to slip.

 

273b8b32-00fd-481f-9716-161cf9afa59f.0b0361cf822178be0762ef5349a4046e.thumb.webp.0508e4ac92fa18dbc783d9bef25916ec.webp

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

This is correct JASO MA oil is a requirement for wet clutches, other motor oils are "Energy Conserving II" and will cause wet clutch slippage, and rapid wear.

The manuals I've seen out of Hisun/Coleman are not explicit or don't mention it at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Coleman 400 manual.

IMG_20240322_081855.thumb.jpg.ef27375e92a5c12ff5710c3ebf4c5939.jpg

 

From Hisun 500 manual.

IMG_20240322_081652.thumb.jpg.f3f40c4990d5ba31fd52788d4080fb42.jpg

 

Also found out why some oils "meet" the JASO MA or JASO MA2 requirements and some are "certified" .

To get "certified" and be able to use the JASO MA symbol. Oil makers send oil to labs to get tested and pay big bucks so the can use the symbol that states their oil is "certified"

If their oil "meets or exceeds" then oil makers have their in-house engineers look up the specs and match it. No outside labs confirms it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/6/2023 at 11:44 PM, Greg Kilgore said:

And I think the synthetic lets the clutch slip more than conventional. If there is a lot of miles on the clutch with conventional oil. Then switched to synthetic. The clutch is more likely to slip.

Not sure I understand your statement as to slippage. That is, which type oil is best, as to which conventional or synthetic may cause slippage.

I'm doing my first oil change and want to make sure I get the correct type. Coleman and Massimo both have available the JASO MA oil 10W40, but both of which are synthetic. Is that what I need to use?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Synthetic vs conventional has nothing to do with clutch slippage. The clutch slip is caused by viscosity modifiers used in "Energy Conserving" oils (you'll see that with the API Starburst ratings).

JASO MA rated oils are designed to work properly with wet clutches used in Japanese bikes, as well as ATV/UTVs etc that use wet clutches.

Do not use a non JASO-MA rated oil unless you can confirm it is wet clutch safe, and afaik the only common non MA rated oil that is ok is Rotella.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, aefron88 said:

Synthetic vs conventional has nothing to do with clutch slippage. The clutch slip is caused by viscosity modifiers used in "Energy Conserving" oils (you'll see that with the API Starburst ratings).

JASO MA rated oils are designed to work properly with wet clutches used in Japanese bikes, as well as ATV/UTVs etc that use wet clutches.

Do not use a non JASO-MA rated oil unless you can confirm it is wet clutch safe, and afaik the only common non MA rated oil that is ok is Rotella.

Yes, and that was my confusion. The manual, from what I've seen, only states JASO-MA, but doesn't mention whether the oil should be synthetic or not.

I contacted a few guys who made videos on the Coleman UT400 and one stated he uses "regular motorcycle oil". Another just said he uses only "regular oil" because he also heard synthetic can cause slippage, but didn't mention if that regular oil he uses was JASO-MA or not.

The third guy I spoke to, who owns a repair shop stated the following: "As far as clutch slippage , you don't have to worry about that from the oil, being that these units come with CVT, no oil ever touches the clutch. And I don't see any reason full synthetic would harm this engine in any way. However that being said I do know that full synthetic oil in older Harley Davidsons have caused cams to spin inside the bearings creating a flat spot in the bearing. I do not see that happening to these units."

So with that said, I'm guessing that as long as it is a JASO-MA rated oil, it doesn't matter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's correct on the MA oil.

Some of the info in that post is wrong.

There are two things moving the power from the engine to the drivetrain: first there's a wet centrifugal clutch, from that drives the primary cvt pulley, which has a belt to the secondary. The friction material on the clutch is prone to slipping with use of additives "energy Conserving II" API rated oils, which are used in most car oils. Cars use a dry transmission, most motorcycles use a wet clutch where the clutch plates are bathed in oil. The MA rated oils don't have that additive which causes wet clutch slip issues.

See attached picture of the friction disc of the wet clutch. Yellow stuff is the friction material. Once it starts slipping you get rapid wear, and also a lot of crud in your oil.

Generally speaking conventional vs synthetic, synthetic oils have more uniform molecules and hence lubricate better and resist more wear and tear before going out of spec. They also typically have better additive packages, because the manufacturer expects them to be used for more mileage.

Conv vs synth it makes little difference, and I would lean towards changing oil early on these machines being a large single cylinder ("thumper") they get more wear and tear than a normal car engine, and also I've read a fair number of timing chain stretching issues, which is typically an issue with accelerated wear of the pins holding the chain.

Screenshot_20240404_045019_Firefox.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Topics

    • By mac66
      Just bought a used UTV, my first SxS.  It is extremely LOUD!   Was thinking of wearing shooting ear muffs to muffle the noise but then my passenger( wife) and I couldn't hear each other over the shouting we have to do now.... On the other hand we sometime ride with my brother and his wife and would like to be able to communicate. We throught about FRS and/or GMRS radios (we are licensed for GMRS) but we'd have to wear earphones under our ear muffs. My state doesn't require helmets to ride UTVs.
      I suppose if everyone has a cheap FRS/gmrs bubble pack radio with a ear phone we could all talk to one another. Just wear an ear plug in the other ear or ear muffs.
      Looking for suggestions.
    • By Reuben
      My 2015 450i UCV dies when I take my foot off the accelerator when traveling at a slow speed. Can I adjust something to make this issue stop?
    • By Michael Wood
      I have a 2018 Massimo Buck 400 with 278 miles. 
      Having issues with my brakes. Took the buggy hunting and when I let my foot off the gas pedal it pulls without pressing on the brake. I looked and the pads on all 4 wheels are all toast. The E-Brake hasn’t been on since I have had it. I am guessing it may be a master cylinder issue because all 4 pads are gone. They all seem to have worn evenly that’s why I think the master cylinder. Just got the machine used from a older couple and they said it sat for some time in there pole barn. Possibly the brake lines? Calipers? I took one brake apart and when I depressed the caliper it didn’t stay. Any help is muck appreciated. 
    • By Mark T
      MY 400 is gutless. I would like to know if I can upgrade to a larger engine ?
    • By Bartender
      Hey Yall,
      I have a 2011 cub cadet UTV that runs rough at higher speeds (sputters) . I changed plugs and replaced the gas with new . Does anyone have any idea thinking fuel filter or pump ? 
×
×
  • Create New...