My Trooper at where the jamboree will be

[Kinarfi]

I have been looking at the current jamboree location choice on google earth and the more I look, the more I like it, the last ride Lenny & I took in my Trooper was toward Bull Mountain and it was getting higher, (cooler) but my Trooper was having an oil loss problem and it was getting later and storm rolling in, so we didn't explore a lot of the possibilities and headed to camp. I plan to go back, prior to the jamboree and do some more exploring, even if I have to go alone. I suggest you get on google earth and take a look at some of the trails, start at 38 04 40 N 110 41 05 W, about 6000 feet and going up, Lenny & I saw this trail in the distance, but didn't get to it, probably should have, It looks like it may go up on top of bull mountain.

Now, for my/our education about Trooper's 1100 cc engine, mine came with chrome canister that had a hose to the oil pan, a breather with air filter, and a line to the valve cover. I removed it, put a plugged hose on the hole to the valve cover and did the same on the tube coming out of the oil pan. After I got it running, I found a few small puddles of oil on the garage floor and wrote them off as spilled oil from doing my valves. I loaded it up and went to Hanksville. While riding, I noticed I was actually losing oil and my swing arm and skid plate were getting real messy with oil and dirt. I had to put 3, may be 4 quarts in while there. Got home and it appeared that the oil was coming out of the oil pan tube and later, I determined it was definitely coming out of that tube.

I thought the crank case would vent through the oil passages from the pan to the head and out to the intake manifold. I must be wrong. If that tube on the oil pan is a vent tube, why is it below the oil level line? Is it a vent tube or what is it for?

Does any know for sure what's going on and can teach me/us?

kinarfi

[ricksrb]

I have been looking at the current jamboree location choice on google earth and the more I look, the more I like it, the last ride Lenny & I took in my Trooper was toward Bull Mountain and it was getting higher, (cooler) but my Trooper was having an oil loss problem and it was getting later and storm rolling in, so we didn't explore a lot of the possibilities and headed to camp. I plan to go back, prior to the jamboree and do some more exploring, even if I have to go alone. I suggest you get on google earth and take a look at some of the trails, start at 38 04 40 N 110 41 05 W, about 6000 feet and going up, Lenny & I saw this trail in the distance, but didn't get to it, probably should have, It looks like it may go up on top of bull mountain.

Now, for my/our education about Trooper's 1100 cc engine, mine came with chrome canister that had a hose to the oil pan, a breather with air filter, and a line to the valve cover. I removed it, put a plugged hose on the hole to the valve cover and did the same on the tube coming out of the oil pan. After I got it running, I found a few small puddles of oil on the garage floor and wrote them off as spilled oil from doing my valves. I loaded it up and went to Hanksville. While riding, I noticed I was actually losing oil and my swing arm and skid plate were getting real messy with oil and dirt. I had to put 3, may be 4 quarts in while there. Got home and it appeared that the oil was coming out of the oil pan tube and later, I determined it was definitely coming out of that tube.

I thought the crank case would vent through the oil passages from the pan to the head and out to the intake manifold. I must be wrong. If that tube on the oil pan is a vent tube, why is it below the oil level line? Is it a vent tube or what is it for?

Does any know for sure what's going on and can teach me/us?

kinarfi

I had mentioned in one of our earlier topics(i think i started it but not sure) about finding oil in my intake manifold.during the discussions i mentioned i had a hose from the valve cover to the fresh air intake unlike any of the others such as yours that had the canister.Mine came new that way and was wondering why mine was that way but no answers.its as though it should have a pcv valve in it but does not.also have a smaller hose from valve cover to intake manifold(vacuum).

[Kinarfi]

Yes, you did start a thread about that, http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2175-oil-in-throttle-body/page__view__findpost__p__9738,

Here's the photo you posted with some additions, would you please check and see if you have a hose coming off you oil pan and where it goes to. My hose starts at the front right side of the oil pan, went up over the clutch bell to the canister.

Thanks

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

My hose comes off of the right side of the pan and goes to the bottom of the oil catch can. Out of the side of the oil catch can is a smaller hose that goes to the side of my valve cover. That is it, a simple breathing oil catch can setup.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

Yes, you did start a thread about that, http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2175-oil-in-throttle-body/page__view__findpost__p__9738,

Here's the photo you posted with some additions, would you please check and see if you have a hose coming off you oil pan and where it goes to. My hose starts at the front right side of the oil pan, went up over the clutch bell to the canister.

Thanks

Kinarfi

no hose off oil pan.

[Kinarfi]

no hose off oil pan.

Thank you,

Jeff

[rocmoc]

no hose off oil pan.

There has to be a crankcase breather setup somewhere. When there use to be no hoses coming off of the oil pan then there was a tube off the side of the block or breather caps on the valve covers. The pressure that builds in the crankcase has to be relieved someway or you will blowout the valve seals and oil rings on the pistons.

[ricksrb]

There has to be a crankcase breather setup somewhere. When there use to be no hoses coming off of the oil pan then there was a tube off the side of the block or breather caps on the valve covers. The pressure that builds in the crankcase has to be relieved someway or you will blowout the valve seals and oil rings on the pistons.

crawled around it and looked at all sides,didnt see anything off the pan,didnt look for one coming off block.Hope i dont sound to stupid here but doesnt the the head and block have ports that the oil travels through from the top to the crankcase?? when you put oil in the top(valve cover) doesnt oil travel done to the oil pan through these ports?

[Kinarfi]

There has to be a crankcase breather setup somewhere. When there use to be no hoses coming off of the oil pan then there was a tube off the side of the block or breather caps on the valve covers. The pressure that builds in the crankcase has to be relieved someway or you will blowout the valve seals and oil rings on the pistons.

crawled around it and looked at all sides,didnt see anything off the pan,didnt look for one coming off block.Hope i dont sound to stupid here but doesnt the the head and block have ports that the oil travels through from the top to the crankcase?? when you put oil in the top (valve cover) doesnt oil travel down to the oil pan through these ports?

I put a tube on that oil pan outlet and blew air thru it with my air compressor and I could hear it bubbling thru the oil when I had the fill cap off, the problem wilt the little tube going to the intake manifold is that it doesn't' pass very much air, so the pressure builds up in the crank case and the whole engine.

On my first two attempts to plug the oil pan hole, I used rubber only tubing, not reinforce tubing like fuel line, unfortunately, I used a better piece of tubing to close of the vent hole in the valve cover, if I had reverse the plug tubes, I may never of had this problem. The valve cover and crank case have passages between them for the oil to flow away from the head back to the crank case and pump and then through the filter and to the various oil galleys.

I plan to put a tube on the larger valve cover out let and tie it into the air intake tubing between the filter and intake manifold, probably with a one way valve which allows pressure out only.

Thank for sharing Rick & Mike,

Jeff

[rocmoc]

crawled around it and looked at all sides,didnt see anything off the pan,didnt look for one coming off block.Hope i dont sound to stupid here but doesnt the the head and block have ports that the oil travels through from the top to the crankcase?? when you put oil in the top(valve cover) doesnt oil travel done to the oil pan through these ports?

Yes but pressure builds in the crankcase system as an engine runs. This pressure has to bleed off or it will push thu the valve seals & oil rings causing oil burn & smoking. That is why you use to have to replace the old smog valve on the original smog systems because they would plug with curd & oil. The new systems route thu a host of canisters to clean and finally burn the cleaner remains off in the intake with the fuel.

[ricksrb]

Yes but pressure builds in the crankcase system as an engine runs. This pressure has to bleed off or it will push thu the valve seals & oil rings causing oil burn & smoking. That is why you use to have to replace the old smog valve on the original smog systems because they would plug with curd & oil. The new systems route thu a host of canisters to clean and finally burn the cleaner remains off in the intake with the fuel.

so wouldnt that pressure be let out by way of the hose coming off valve cover to fresh air intake or by vacuum hose from valve cover to intake manifold? just trying to figure out how mine is do so without that canister.

[Guest Lenny]

so wouldnt that pressure be let out by way of the hose coming off valve cover to fresh air intake or by vacuum hose from valve cover to intake manifold? just trying to figure out how mine is do so without that canister.

The head is seperate from the crankcase.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

The head is seperate from the crankcase.

Lenny

yep but like i said before isnt there passage that oil goes down to crankcase like when oil is added to oil fill it drains straight down to oil pan?

[Guest Lenny]

yep but like i said before isnt there passage that oil goes down to crankcase like when oil is added to oil fill it drains straight down to oil pan?

Your right, forgot about that.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

But when the oil is returning to the oil pan after being pumped to the valve cover chamber, the oil passages fill with oil and pressure will build in the crankcase. If you start getting blow-by from bad compression rings the pressure will finally get great enough to start blowing up the oil passages out thu the oil cap on the valve cover when you remove it while the engine is running. This is the most simple way to see if you have a problem with your rings. Somewhere the crankcase HAS to vent. Even on my motorcycles there is a tube off the top of the case that vent to the air.

Notice you even have vent tubes off the top of the diffs & trans. Heat is created during use and heat produces pressure change in a sealed container. Has to vent or blow the seal or the side of the container.

Maybe this is why oil is showing up in the Later models of the Chery engines in the Later Troopers. I have NO oil in my intake.

[Kinarfi]

If it is supposed to be a vent for the crank case, why is the pipe off the oil pan below the oil level ling of the oil pan? My belief is that the canister was designed to capture the oil that was vented as a mist for what ever reason and return it the oil pan. My canister also had a small air filter on top of it and a tube to the valve cover and there was also a tube from the valve cover to the intake manifold. Somewhere on this forum was a comment about the filter getting dirty, presumably from air being drawn in through the canister and then making it's way to the intake manifold. Without the canister and filter, the engine will operate at a negative pressure, which will help prevent oil leaks or maybe, at worst, suck in air or maybe even dirt. With the canister and filter, the engine will run a atmospheric pressure. I'm reasonably sure that the passages from valve cover to oil pan will pass all the oil from top to bottom and all the air and vapor from bottom to top with no problem!

I'm going to cap my oil pan tube off again and open the larger tube from valve cover and take that to the the air intake tube with one way valve in line. I have small collection bottle in the line from the valve cover to the intake manifold already to catch any oil mist.

Jeff

[rocmoc]

Don't know, maybe it is in reverse of the way I have be describing on the Chery engine. Maybe It is releasing pressure in the valve cover to the catch can and oil that is in the vent is deposited in the catch can. Then the oil in catch can is returned to the pan via the tube going to the pan. Yeah I checked mine and the tube to the oil pan is below the oil level in the pan.