FUBAR

[Spur of the Moment]

Well maybe not THAT bad. But I'm not happy. Broke a left side output shaft last night. Climbing a steep 100ft or so rocky mountain and half way up.....clunk and sharp left turn. Got home fortunately. Thought it was a CV joint again. I just replaced the left joints and axle in June. After inspection it was the output shaft. Don't know where to go from here. Doing some searching on the net I found out that latter in '08 the Sand Vipers came stock with open diffs. Mine is an '07 closed, or locked diff. Maybe I should look for an open diff as a replacement. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Bruce

[Kinarfi]

left out put shaft on a viper, would that be the same as the rear output shaft on a trooper, the output is not that hard to replace, just time consuming and you have to pull the engine. I may be wrong, you may have an actual differential in there, but I'll bet that other than that, they're the same.

http://www.utvboard....dpost__p__15158

went looking at the part list for a 2008 viper, http://www.jmcmotors.us/manuals/1100sandviper_parts_manual2008.pdf , and it does look like what I had to replace.

[Guest Lenny]

I beleive your talking the rear left axel. If its the same axel as the Trooper uses, I have some for sale. I dont think the locked diff has anything to do with it. If your engine is turned 90 degrees to how the Trooper engine sets, then Kinarfi may be right.

Lenny

[Spur of the Moment]

Hi guys. Thanks for the info.

Here are some pics.

Broken piece in the CV joint cup

Couple of pics of the trans.

What it should look like.

Part #16

The link to the parts.

http://www.borossi.com/download/BB%201100%20Motor.pdf

Here is a link about the two diffs.

http://www.joynerforum.com/forum/showthread.php?73-Transmission-Output-Shafts

Here is a link about someone else having the same break.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/driveline/8490-joyner-1100-sand-viper.html

One of my friends said to pull the oil seal and try to get a hold of the shaft and pull it out. Then replace the shaft and seal. That shaft is probably locked in pretty tight.

Bruce

[Kinarfi]

Off the subject, hi jack, but I wonder how that differential would work in a Trooper, you would have to put it 4 X 4 and leave it, and I guess that if any tire got off the ground, that would be the only tire to spin. Bad idea I guess. Unless you can find a lockright to put in, actually I'd want 3 of them.

[Spur of the Moment]

I don't know which is better. In that post, one says it's like limited slip which would be good and another says it's not. I'll call around today to see what I can find out.

[nocturnalsixer]

Didn't trooper have lockers in rear and front or is this different?

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[Spur of the Moment]

I'm not sure. I think you have locked differentials like what I have now but you have the levers to lock and unlock them. I've been talking to Kinarfi and when I get my parts I am going to send him pictures. He can explain things a lot better than I can.

Bruce

[nocturnalsixer]

I'm not sure. I think you have locked differentials like what I have now but you have the levers to lock and unlock them. I've been talking to Kinarfi and when I get my parts I am going to send him pictures. He can explain things a lot better than I can.

Bruce

Oh so you was looking to use locker in sand viper using trooper's locker?

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[Kinarfi]

A little clarification about diffs
Vipers and Trooper have the same motor and transmission ---- I think

photo removed, needed the space elsewhere, Kinarfi

[nocturnalsixer]

Kinarfi i understood what differential is. Looking at picture it look like trooper have spider assembly with selectable locker in it and sand viper only either have locked up or open differential but not both in one like trooper does...right?

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[BuggieDude]

The Trooper and Viper have the same Motor and Trans...Yes...BUT The Trooper uses a SOLID OUTPUT shaft, it drives both front and rear drive shafts while the Differentials do the locking and unlocking. The OLD Viper used to have a SOLID OUTPUT Shaft, but now has an OPEN OUTPUT shaft, and YES they are interchangeable. The seperation comes where the operation happens....the Viper Trans drives the Axles directly....the Trooper Trans drives the Differentials which drive the Axles....I hope this makes sense....lol

[nocturnalsixer]

The Trooper and Viper have the same Motor and Trans...Yes...BUT The Trooper uses a SOLID OUTPUT shaft, it drives both front and rear drive shafts while the Differentials do the locking and unlocking. The OLD Viper used to have a SOLID OUTPUT Shaft, but now has an OPEN OUTPUT shaft, and YES they are interchangeable. The seperation comes where the operation happens....the Viper Trans drives the Axles directly....the Trooper Trans drives the Differentials which drive the Axles....I hope this makes sense....lol

Yes it do...so best fix for Bruce would be the later open one?

Any idea why change from locked to open on those?

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[BuggieDude]

Yes it do...so best fix for Bruce would be the later open one?

Any idea why change from locked to open on those?

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Yes...however, we are out of stock at the moment.

The reason was simply due to the Failure Rate and the fact that the Viper PUSHED thru corners real BAD. Not to mention customer complaints about it being hard to push around.

[Kinarfi]

correction to post #2

http://news.webshots.com/album/583118196uDjmVn is my album for splitting the cases on a Viper or a Trooper

[Kinarfi]

Correction to what I thought I was posting in post #2

http://news.webshots.com/album/583118196uDjmVn My album about splitting the cases in Trooper or Viper.

[nocturnalsixer]

Kinarfi....is this the same part that broke on your trooper recently?

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[Spur of the Moment]

A little clarification about diffs

Vipers and Trooper have the same motor and transmission ---- I think

This is exactly right. Mine is an '07 Viper with a closed diff and in late '08 they changed it to an open diff. I am going to replace mine with an open diff. See Kinarfi's diagram.

Yes...however, we are out of stock at the moment.

The reason was simply due to the Failure Rate and the fact that the Viper PUSHED thru corners real BAD. Not to mention customer complaints about it being hard to push around.

This is true and why I am changing to an open diff.

[nocturnalsixer]

Buggiedude

I just got an crazy idea lol but i was wondering if i could get that piece that's between the front differential and front driveshaft that makes the trooper 2wd and put it on rear differential..maybe whole another front differential case if it have special boss for that piece but anyways i want to know if i can use that piece to make rear disconnect so i can have only front drive like dig unit on atlas transfer case and such as?

Those are found in crawler and all kind of trail trucks

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[BuggieDude]

Buggiedude

I just got an crazy idea lol but i was wondering if i could get that piece that's between the front differential and front driveshaft that makes the trooper 2wd and put it on rear differential..maybe whole another front differential case if it have special boss for that piece but anyways i want to know if i can use that piece to make rear disconnect so i can have only front drive like dig unit on atlas transfer case and such as?

Those are found in crawler and all kind of trail trucks

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**DISCLAIMER**

Joyner USA does not recommend changeing your vehicle from its original manufactured state.

That being said....

In theory yes....use a Front Diff flipped upside down in the rear....Drill a NEW drain plug...clock the cover 90 degrees to get the vent tube on top....shorten the rear drive shaft....and run another cable to operate the rear engagement.

ALSO...this will add a lot more stress to the FRONT drive shaft in those cases when only using front wheel drive so beefing up the U-Joints might also be in order....

[nocturnalsixer]

**DISCLAIMER**

Joyner USA does not recommend changeing your vehicle from its original manufactured state.

That being said....

In theory yes....use a Front Diff flipped upside down in the rear....Drill a NEW drain plug...clock the cover 90 degrees to get the vent tube on top....shorten the rear drive shaft....and run another cable to operate the rear engagement.

ALSO...this will add a lot more stress to the FRONT drive shaft in those cases when only using front wheel drive so beefing up the U-Joints might also be in order....

That's what i was thinking and thanks for the answer...disclaimer is there to cover your and Joyner behind i understand haha

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[huunz]

OI didn't see anyone comeing up with a way to get the broken stub out yet. I've done it several times with multple rigs; take your arc welder and "stick" a peice of rod to the center of the broken bit you want to remove. Pull on the rod you stuck on it, it should come out.

[Kinarfi]

OI didn't see anyone comeing up with a way to get the broken stub out yet. I've done it several times with multple rigs; take your arc welder and "stick" a peice of rod to the center of the broken bit you want to remove. Pull on the rod you stuck on it, it should come out.

Now that's a good idea, just be sure to hook the welder ground to the piece you're welding on so the current doesn't travel through the gears and bearings. Or is that a Duhhh!

[Spur of the Moment]

I found out my shaft goes all the way through to the other side. The open diff. has a short shaft on both sides. I have to split the cases to fix mine. I'm installing an open diff. in place of the closed one.

Bruce

[Kinarfi]

**DISCLAIMER**

Joyner USA does not recommend changeing your vehicle from its original manufactured state.

That being said....

In theory yes....use a Front Diff flipped upside down in the rear....Drill a NEW drain plug...clock the cover 90 degrees to get the vent tube on top....shorten the rear drive shaft....and run another cable to operate the rear engagement.

ALSO...this will add a lot more stress to the FRONT drive shaft in those cases when only using front wheel drive so beefing up the U-Joints might also be in order....

I think this was discussed earlier, but if I remember correctly, you would also have to replace the ring and pinion gears because the arc of the gears are left and right - front and rear.

photo removed, needed the space elsewhere, Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

Kinarfi is correct. The gears can be run in both directioins but are designed to run in one particular direction. The gears will run quieter in the correct direction. We have all noticed how some vehicles will whine when run in reverse. That can be from the reverse gears in the transmission being straight cut or the differential running opposit its design direction. Even though the differential would probably run a long time in reverse, I have to beleive it will run longer going forward.

Lenny

[huunz]

Now that's a good idea, just be sure to hook the welder ground to the piece you're welding on so the current doesn't travel through the gears and bearings. Or is that a Duhhh!

True, except that sometimes it is broken off way inside (I learned the trick working on Jeep Dana 30 front ends, and we had to stick two welding rods together to even get to the end). It isn't an optimal thing to do to your gears, but we've never had an issue in all the years I've done it. I think it is because the "stick" process is so short, not like welding a bead.

[BuggieDude]

Kinarfi is correct. The gears can be run in both directioins but are designed to run in one particular direction. The gears will run quieter in the correct direction. We have all noticed how some vehicles will whine when run in reverse. That can be from the reverse gears in the transmission being straight cut or the differential running opposit its design direction. Even though the differential would probably run a long time in reverse, I have to beleive it will run longer going forward.

Lenny

Actually...that is the point for running it "upside down"...we flipped one over in the warehouse on the shelf to make sure....same direction "if" it is run upside down.

[Guest Lenny]

Actually...that is the point for running it "upside down"...we flipped one over in the warehouse on the shelf to make sure....same direction "if" it is run upside down.

You are correct. Good work. To better clarify, flipping it upside down doesn't mean rolling the input shaft up over the top to point rearward. It means flipping the right output shaft to become the left output shaft and vise-versa.

Lenny

Lenny

[Spur of the Moment]

Trans is back in but hasen't been tested yet. Should be testing it today. Kinarfi, I sent you an e-mail. Rebuild seemed to go smoothly.