Quantcast
Jump to content

Who knows their clutches?


tsheh4

Recommended Posts

Question for the audience,  does anyone know the differences in the hs400 and hs500 primary belt clutche and the wet clutch? I have been told the 500 and up engines use a clutch that is interchangeable with yahmahas, but the 400s have a different part number as far as I can find. Is this maybe just different weights in the clutch? Also does anyone know what the factory weights are? Went for a ride in my 400 this week and looking to see if I can get a little more out of her as far as holding higher rpms and maybe getting a bit more aggressive clutch engagement sooner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Their is only one clutch, the centrifugal wet clutch--I do not know if units with other flyweights available--but that's what would be needed to increase it's engagement rate (at the expense of driveability):

HSClutch-00.thumb.jpg.1fb0959e238ab055f52b56bb4bd76d23.jpg

In the HS series he Primary and Secondary CVT sheaves are not clutches but rather a variator (primary) and torque multiplier (secondary)--most "maxi-scooters" (400+ cc) use this type of CVT .

variator:

HSVariator-00.thumb.jpg.e65d6ba8765206a07b37c3462e14f0f3.jpg

In the variator centrifugal force flings the weights outward trying to force the pulley halves together as speed increases--this increases the effective diameter of the primary sheave an d draws the belt down into the secondary sheave, attempting to reduce its diameter (I.e. a "higher" (numerically lower) gear)--but in the  torque multiplier (secondary sheave) that action is opposed by the torque spring (and the torque "cam"  and followers)--trying to maintain a "lower" overall gear ratio. They battle it out constantly as the vehicle's torque requirements change.

The torque multiplier cam works because when the belt slips on the fixed pulley half (inboard) it does not on the movable (outboard) half, making the outer half rotate on the hub. As it rotates on the hub the cam grooves try to force the halves apart, increasing the effective diameter and forcing a yet lower ratio--this is the torque "multiplier" function. The cam profile can of course not be easily changed, however the spring can, with heavier springs favouring "lower" overall ratios and lighter springs "higher" gears.

The weights in the variator work similarly, heavier favours "higher gearing" , lighter"lower gearing". But neither are  clutches, despite often being referred to as such.

The only thing that can "slip" and limit engine torque to the wheels (other than the belt which is not likely to) is the wet clutch; but altering the variator weights and/or torque multiplier spring can change the overall CVT ratio making clutch slippage less likely--at the expense of top speed.

HSTrqMult-00.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cliffyk im starting to figure out you are the go to guy for info on these machines. Appreciate your info very much, on this and a a few other posts over the last week.

I had the concept in my head right, just didnt nail the vernacular. So now a little deeper down the rabbit hole... I need to figure out how much parts interchangeability there is between a yahmaha and my 400, and the weight of the weights in the variator. Looking at a primary variator made by an outfit called hunterworks. They have applications for many different machines, and they are supposedly machined to be able to give you a little deeper gearing on the low end and slightly higher on the high end. They also make weights to attach to the wet clutch shoes to give a more positve and quicker engagement. From what in hearing there is a chance the kits for a 660 rhino may be a fit.... but im looking for some validation before I drop the cash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, tsheh4 said:

Cliffyk im starting to figure out you are the go to guy for info on these machines. Appreciate your info very much, on this and a a few other posts over the last week.

I had the concept in my head right, just didnt nail the vernacular. So now a little deeper down the rabbit hole... I need to figure out how much parts interchangeability there is between a yahmaha and my 400, and the weight of the weights in the variator. Looking at a primary variator made by an outfit called hunterworks. They have applications for many different machines, and they are supposedly machined to be able to give you a little deeper gearing on the low end and slightly higher on the high end. They also make weights to attach to the wet clutch shoes to give a more positve and quicker engagement. From what in hearing there is a chance the kits for a 660 rhino may be a fit.... but im looking for some validation before I drop the cash.

I have heard that (Rhino 660 and HS400 parts interchangeability) as well, but not verified--I have also seen it claimed that Hisun made some Rhinos. though the EPA database does not show this. Looking at photos on the web they "look" the same--perhaps Hunterworks can provide some dimensions--you'd have to take yours apart of course, but that will provide you with the info you need to track down potential upgrades. The wet clutch assembly is held together with Cir-clips so you could disassemble it and play with springs ans added weight. I have done this with a Suzuki Burgman 400 and Honda Silver Wing 600 scooters--pretty much the same CVT but with dry clutches...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Tsheh4,

Would like to know what happened with getting more out of the hisun beast. 

 

I just got an Axis 500 to replace my CFMoto Uforce.

 

They also make something called "sliders" that takes the place of the "rollers" or weights (part 5 in cliffyk's primary sheave diagram). Or at least they do for the cfmoto.  The cfmoto primary sheave looks very similar. 

 

One word of warning to EVERYONE with a CVT belt. INSPECT THE BELT. My new belt on the moto lasted a 14 months. Then had a catastrophic failure at 35ish MPH and wrapped around the primary and secondary sheaves. Locking the transmission/rear tires. Sending the wife and I skidding down the highway. Ended up laying it over on drivers side. Luckily no serious injuries. 

 

Cliffyk,

How hard is it to put weights in the clutch. I've seen the Cir-clip that keep the clutch paws in place. But the springs look awful stiff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Topics

    • By AlphaSerenity
      Hello,
      Before I invest $10k+ into a brand new UTV for the farm, I want to get my feet wet with a fixer upper and learn the mechanical side of things. I acquired a 2022 Hisun Axis 500 (Lowes-specific model) from an auction for $500. It has only 200 hours and 120 miles on the engine. It looks like the previous owner used it for ranch work and didn't drive it on trails, deep water/mud, or anything too crazy.
      While it runs and moves, it has some problems. It struggles to accelerate up any incline in high and low range and sometimes stalls when I let off of the throttle or change gears. When I apply throttle in neutral, it sounds like it is struggling for fuel/air and pops. When I decelerate, there is a grinding sound coming from the clutch, which I've read to be related to the one way bearing and is semi-common. The last thing I've observed is sometimes the speedometer display sometimes will show a much higher value for a few seconds after barely touching the throttle. Based on the documentation, if a problem is detected from the sensors, the instrument panel display should have an error code rendered on the screen in place of the time, but this isn't happening. Here is a video showing some of these issues (engine is exposed with console removed):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFAkO5TaGps
       
      Here is another video of the clutches in action:
       
      I've done some research, but information on this specific unit and sister units is limited. There does seem to be transmission and clutch issues reported. I still need to check into the head gaskets. I don't have the equipment to test compression right now, but I do plan on ordering what is needed soon. I do have an order in place for some cables to read the diagnostics from the computer. There is a shop two hours away from me that works on Hisun products, but I am hoping the problem can be identified and is something within my ability to handle. Below is what I've already investigated.  I am leaning towards the primary clutch needing replacement right now.
      After getting it home and unloaded, I did the following maintenance/checks to it prior to operating it further:
      Changed the engine/clutch oil (and filter) and gear oils using manufacture recommended viscosity Changed the air filter and checked for cracks in the air intake flow. Verified good suction. Cleaned the throttle body Changed the spark plug and verified the gap was within spec (0.6-0.7mm) Changed the coil and coil wire Changed the fuel lines, fuel injector, and verified the fuel pump was outputting the correct initial prime pressure for ignition and continuous pressure after ignition. Also completely emptied the fuel tank and made sure octane 91+ fuel is being used per manufacturer specs. Ran seafoam through system too. Cleaned the spark arrester and verified no cracks or gaps in the exhaust flow Changed out the O2 sensor Checked all wired connections to ensure they were secured and no breaks were visible Checked the belt for tightness and for any signs of wear and tear Verified 4WD and the differential lock function as expected - still hesitates and struggles uphill Verified the fan gears in the shifter are not corroded and working as expected ECU was reset after replacing sensors and fuel-related parts  
       
      Thanks!
    • By LindaCall60
      Purchased a 2011 bighorn banchee. Needs motor work. Not sure what. Husband is mechanic but not computer savvy. So, is there a manual that will tell him how to tear this down?  We have down loaded a service manual, but he says it doesn't tell him what he is looking for. 
    • By Round
      Bought a Massimo 500 last night. Stopped and filled it up on the way home and I put the wrong gas in it. Is there a drain plug on the bottom of the tank that I can get to or will I have to siphon it out?
    • By lonerider98
      At the end of last year my Coleman UT 500 will not go into reverse. I can hold it over toward the reverse to move it nut it won't lock into reverse. Anyone have this problem? Winter is just about over and going to have to get this resolved. Thank You!
    • By Felderlostnspace
      2016, Hisun 500 turns over great but Spark plug is firing when I turn the ignition key on. I’ve got good fuel pressure to the injector. Pulled plug out and it is wet with. gasoline. Air filter is clean. Turns over great just does not even try to pop or start.. I’ve checked off uses and they are good when I turn the key on I’m getting power to the injector.. I’m not hearing the injector pulsing, but may just be my hearing.. With the spark plug getting wet with gas I feel like the injector is pulsing and spraying. Any suggestions would be great. I don’t know the hours on the unit offhand, but it has 600 miles on it. Thank you for your comments and advanced.
×
×
  • Create New...