Joyner Trooper Dragging Brakes

[rocmoc]

Found the cause. The master cylinder for the Left front & Right rear is not releasing all the way. I have to put my toe under the pedal and pull the pedal to get the brakes to release. I have done this for a couple of days hoping it would correct itself with use but doesn't seem to be working. Anyone else have any tips or tricks before I remove and replace?

What is the logical of crisscrossing the brakes instead of front on one cylinder and the rear on the other?

If I go into the brake system I am going to change to front & rear instead of the crisscrossing while I am working on the master cylinder. I will be able to put more bias on the front brakes.

Always something, get one thing fixed and something else appears.

Finishing on a positive, REALLY loving the power steering !!!!!! The more I drive it, the more I like it.

rocmoc n AZ

[2scoops]

Here is how I understand the criss-crossing when I was repairing my brakes:

They use a cantalever to actuate the master cylinders. Its kind of a jimmy-rig way to ensure a similar distribution of pressure but is not exact. Because it is not exact pressure & could change back & forth depending on the resistance of one master cylinder to the other due reasons like brake fade being greater on one brake cylinder over the others or

thicker pads on front or rear, etc they opted for a cantalever design over a

proportioning valve to

save money. Then they criss-crossed to provide even more equal distribution per wheel. I would like to get rid of the cantalever & install a proportioning valve. Then you can adjust your braking pressure from front to rear with the turn of a knob. I think it should be

somewhere around 60 front 40 rear. A stock Trooper is running 50/50. Although we have two master cylinders, I can tell you from experience, if one fails, or a brake cylinder fails, your pedal will go to the floor & you will have no brakes because of the catalever design--all pressure will default to the failing side. Its like someone jumping off one side of a teeter-toter.

[ricksrb]

Found the cause. The master cylinder for the Left front & Right rear is not releasing all the way. I have to put my toe under the pedal and pull the pedal to get the brakes to release. I have done this for a couple of days hoping it would correct itself with use but doesn't seem to be working. Anyone else have any tips or tricks before I remove and replace?

What is the logical of crisscrossing the brakes instead of front on one cylinder and the rear on the other?

If I go into the brake system I am going to change to front & rear instead of the crisscrossing while I am working on the master cylinder. I will be able to put more bias on the front brakes.

Always something, get one thing fixed and something else appears.

Finishing on a positive, REALLY loving the power steering !!!!!! The more I drive it, the more I like it.

rocmoc n AZ

for only a temporary fix how about putting a spring on it? to pull pedal back.

[rocmoc]

Here is how I understand the criss-crossing when I was repairing my brakes:

They use a cantalever to actuate the master cylinders. Its kind of a jimmy-rig way to ensure a similar distribution of pressure but is not exact. Because it is not exact pressure & could change back & forth depending on the resistance of one master cylinder to the other due reasons like brake fade being greater on one brake cylinder over the others or

thicker pads on front or rear, etc they opted for a cantalever design over a

proportioning valve to

save money. Then they criss-crossed to provide even more equal distribution per wheel. I would like to get rid of the cantalever & install a proportioning valve. Then you can adjust your braking pressure from front to rear with the turn of a knob. I think it should be

somewhere around 60 front 40 rear. A stock Trooper is running 50/50. Although we have two master cylinders, I can tell you from experience, if one fails, or a brake cylinder fails, your pedal will go to the floor & you will have no brakes because of the catalever design--all pressure will default to the failing side. Its like someone jumping off one side of a teeter-toter.

The cantilever setup is fine. Had the same setup in my race car with a screw knob in the cockpit which allowed me to adjust the proportioning thu-out a race or before a race. Worked really well ! Where they screwed up is with the crisscrossing of the brake lines. This setup works only when one master cylinder controls the front brakes and the other controls the rear, IMHO. This is an easy fix if there is enough length to switch the lines to the proper master cylinder. Will complete by next week. To make things worse it in the first 50 Troopers, of which my is one, they installed 8" rotors. Later they gave me the upgrade to the larger rotors that everyone else got later. BUT they said I had to pay for linstall or do it myself. Well I upgraded the rear rotors when I installed the new bearings and have never got around to upgrading the fronts. SO I have a LOT of rear bias. BUT the really great thing is when they gave me the upgrade, they include two NEW master cylinders so I have spares.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

for only a temporary fix how about putting a spring on it? to pull pedal back.

I'm going to change out the master cylinder as I have spares. Was hoping someone had an easy trick they had used. Already have a smaller spring on there for the brake light.

Thanks tho,

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

My clutch was doing the same thing and I had to replace the master cylinder to fix it. I switched my brakes from the criss-cross setup a long time ago. It works just fine. If you remember, I have 2 calipers on each wheel, all for braking with my parking brake being on the front drive shaft. My brakes work great. I can come onto a corner hot and hit the brakes last minute as I'm beginning to turn. The front dips and hoggs in real good without skidding while the back also grabs good without skidding except for a slight drift to the side which sets me up for the corner. I don't think I could get the brakes to work any better for handling when I'm hot roding a trail. I haven't had to do any adjusting for bias. When I stop straight, it stays straight, that is unless I lock up all 4 then It might move around some. All the lines meet under the center cover ahead of the shifter. Thats where the two splitter blocks are. All you have to do is switch around which lines go to what splitter.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

My clutch was doing the same thing and I had to replace the master cylinder to fix it. I switched my brakes from the criss-cross setup a long time ago. It works just fine. If you remember, I have 2 calipers on each wheel, all for braking with my parking brake being on the front drive shaft. My brakes work great. I can come onto a corner hot and hit the brakes last minute as I'm beginning to turn. The front dips and hoggs in real good without skidding while the back also grabs good without skidding except for a slight drift to the side which sets me up for the corner. I don't think I could get the brakes to work any better for handling when I'm hot roding a trail. I haven't had to do any adjusting for bias. When I stop straight, it stays straight, that is unless I lock up all 4 then It might move around some. All the lines meet under the center cover ahead of the shifter. Thats where the two splitter blocks are. All you have to do is switch around which lines go to what splitter.

Lenny

Thanks Lenny,

Yes the center blocks is where I was going to move the lines. Good to hear there is enough length in the line to allow the switch without replacement of any of the lines.

rocmoc n AZ

[nocturnalsixer]

My clutch was doing the same thing and I had to replace the master cylinder to fix it. I switched my brakes from the criss-cross setup a long time ago. It works just fine. If you remember, I have 2 calipers on each wheel, all for braking with my parking brake being on the front drive shaft. My brakes work great. I can come onto a corner hot and hit the brakes last minute as I'm beginning to turn. The front dips and hoggs in real good without skidding while the back also grabs good without skidding except for a slight drift to the side which sets me up for the corner. I don't think I could get the brakes to work any better for handling when I'm hot roding a trail. I haven't had to do any adjusting for bias. When I stop straight, it stays straight, that is unless I lock up all 4 then It might move around some. All the lines meet under the center cover ahead of the shifter. Thats where the two splitter blocks are. All you have to do is switch around which lines go to what splitter.

Lenny

Hey Lenny,

I'm curious what did it take to mount two caliper on both front wheel?

Thanks

Brandon

[Guest Lenny]

Hey Lenny,

I'm curious what did it take to mount two caliper on both front wheel?

Thanks

Brandon

I'll take some pictures and post them.

Lenny

[Guest Lenny]

Here are some pics of the dual calipers. I have the same setup on all four wheels. There are 6 pictures to click thru.

Lenny

[nocturnalsixer]

Here are some pics of the dual calipers. I have the same setup on all four wheels. There are 6 pictures to click thru.

Lenny

That looks good and factory.

I'm asking because my trooper have two calipers on both rear wheels so I'm wondering what parts would I need to buy to make front dual?

I also noticed your calipers are side by side next to each other on my trooper rear set up both caliper are halfway apart on rotor at 9 o clock and 3 o clock

Was yours the same way?

[Guest Lenny]

That looks good and factory.

I'm asking because my trooper have two calipers on both rear wheels so I'm wondering what parts would I need to buy to make front dual?

I also noticed your calipers are side by side next to each other on my trooper rear set up both caliper are halfway apart on rotor at 9 o clock and 3 o clock

Was yours the same way?

My rear ones are like yours. The rear doesn't have steering linkage to deal with. Spacing them 180 degrees apart should be a bit better as it would allow some rotor heat to disapate before getting to the next caliper.

Lenny

[nocturnalsixer]

My rear ones are like yours. The rear doesn't have steering linkage to deal with. Spacing them 180 degrees apart should be a bit better as it would allow some rotor heat to disapate before getting to the next caliper.

Lenny

Sounds good so I just need to order pair of dual caliper bracket and second set of caliper and brake lines for front?

Brandon

[Guest Lenny]

Sounds good so I just need to order pair of dual caliper bracket and second set of caliper and brake lines for front?

Brandon

You will have to fabricate the brackets and get the brake line parts from an auto supply store. The fitting that picks up the incoming line to go to the 2nd caliper will probably need to be found on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Heidts-Brake-Line-Banjo-Bolt-Fittings-and-Kit-7-16-20-Banjo-bolt-Straight-?cmd=ViewItem&hash=item5646725cd6&item=370549087446&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr Not a common fitting. I made mine out of a small block of aluminum. Also you will need a double banjo bolt. http://cgi.ebay.com/DOUBLE-BANJO-BOLT-10mm-x-1-00-DOUBLE-THREAD-SIZE-M10-?cmd=ViewItem&hash=item1c1fda9567&item=120793503079&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr I basically took an existing single bracket and extended it to hold 2 calipers. Actually if you get the brackets with the calipers, you could could cut and match them together. The tab on the spindle housing will also have to be made up. Watch the clearance between the ball joint and the top caliper. I had to trim the corner off the caliper to get clearance. The clearance issue will show up when the suspension is all the way extended. Also turn it tight both ways when checking for clearance.

Lenny

[2scoops]

The cantilever setup is fine. Had the same setup in my race car with a screw knob in the cockpit which allowed me to adjust the proportioning thu-out a race or before a race. Worked really well ! Where they screwed up is with the crisscrossing of the brake lines. This setup works only when one master cylinder controls the front brakes and the other controls the rear, IMHO. This is an easy fix if there is enough length to switch the lines to the proper master cylinder. Will complete by next week. To make things worse it in the first 50 Troopers, of which my is one, they installed 8" rotors. Later they gave me the upgrade to the larger rotors that everyone else got later. BUT they said I had to pay for linstall or do it myself. Well I upgraded the rear rotors when I installed the new bearings and have never got around to upgrading the fronts. SO I have a LOT of rear bias. BUT the really great thing is when they gave me the upgrade, they include two NEW master cylinders so I have spares.

rocmoc n AZ

Roc,

Have you switched your brake lines yet? Any results?

[rocmoc]

No. After I found the bolt hitting the rod I moved on to other priorities. Maybe next summer.

rocmoc n AZ