Joyner wont start...sometimes.

[Brazos]

Hello. My uncle has a 2011, R-4, 812cc, EFI, 5 speed manual Joyner. He called me over the weekend as he has had issues for sometime now getting the Joyner to start. Sometimes it starts right up with no issues. Sometimes it won't turn over (lights & gauges come on but nothing when the key is turned). When it starts it starts great and runs great. He noticed something that gave me a clue. He has started to notice that when it won't start and he rolls it forward a couple feet it will start right up. This makes me think the Joyner has a Neutral Positioning Switch. He confirmed the Joyner has to be in neutral and clutch engaged to start it. Am I on the right track? If so can this be bypassed? My uncle lives 3-4 hours away so I am kind of trying to figure this out long distance.

Thanks

[bigdan120]

Don't think neutral would matter being it's a 5 speed.. I would think the starter solenoid is sticking.

[Brazos]

He has taken it to several different mechanics and the starter has been removed and checked out ok. Since it only does this 30'ish % of the time it could be they tested it on the wrong day when it was working. Still though why/what would rolling the vehicle forward a foot or two make a difference between nothing and starting up and running great or nothing? I could be totally wrong but wouldn't a neutral positioning switch make sense?

[bigdan120]

I don't know how they are set up. It might be it has a neutral safety. I'm not really sure...

[dnastauf]

Same problem on my 2014 R2, read a post on the internet about the wire from the starter to the solenoid not carrying enough voltage all the time to pull the solenoid in all the way. The fix was to install a secondary relay. You can go to any parts store and purchase one. I got a 30 amp one from O'Reilly Auto parts. They are only about 1in square with 4 or 5 terminals. You take the wire off the starter solenoid and run it to the one side of the coil terminal on relay, other coil terminal to ground, run  wire from the hot post from starter solenoid to relay terminal one side of of normally opened and the other side of normally opened to the start terminal on solenoid. You will need some wire and terminal ends.

[Kinarfi]

Go to your fuse and relay panel and remove and reseat every one of relays and fuses (shot gun approach) or find the appropriate relay and pull and reseat just the one. I had a 08 Trooper and it indeed needed the interposing relay because the wire from the switch to the solenoid was too small, it would pull in, but not slam home to make contact, the interposing relay fixed it.  I now have a 2015 Trooper and it has to have the brake on to start. Occasionally fails to engage and all it takes to fix that is to tap on the cover of the fuse/relay box, I have a home made cruise control with a light on it that comes on when I turn the key on but is turned off by the brake, when noticed the light staying on when I was trying to start and not getting the starter to engage, so instead of tapping the cover, I put some polyurethane foam between the fuse and the cover to hold it in, hope it works, I'll find out when thing warm up enough to go riding.

Jeff 

[JoynerUSA]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:21 PM, Kinarfi said:

Go to your fuse and relay panel and remove and reseat every one of relays and fuses (shot gun approach) or find the appropriate relay and pull and reseat just the one. I had a 08 Trooper and it indeed needed the interposing relay because the wire from the switch to the solenoid was too small, it would pull in, but not slam home to make contact, the interposing relay fixed it.  I now have a 2015 Trooper and it has to have the brake on to start. Occasionally fails to engage and all it takes to fix that is to tap on the cover of the fuse/relay box, I have a home made cruise control with a light on it that comes on when I turn the key on but is turned off by the brake, when noticed the light staying on when I was trying to start and not getting the starter to engage, so instead of tapping the cover, I put some polyurethane foam between the fuse and the cover to hold it in, hope it works, I'll find out when thing warm up enough to go riding.

Jeff 

Jeff always has the answers. Good write up bud. Call me if you need anything at all.

[Brazos]

Dnastauf, your solution worked.  Problem solved.  Thank you.

[dnastauf]

ASame problem on my 2014 R2, read a post on the internet about the wire from the starter to the solenoid not carrying enough voltage all the time to pull the solenoid in all the way. The fix was to install a secondary relay. 

Wonder how many starters they sold for that problem? That goes all the way back to the VW.