GNFO

EVSupport and Gorj both answered before I could, so I'll just add this: If you think you're fine with the 200A max continuous output (and 400A output for 35 sec.) and you're set on this particular battery, just go with one. You absolutely should not do two. If you want to ensure you have the full capability of the motor covered, I would suggest looking into a number of other 48V GC2 form factor batteries that are now available. Based on the link you posted I'm guessing you're in Canada, so availability should be close to what we have in the US. Look at the max continuous output and Ah capacity and know that when you wire them in parallel, you can add those numbers to get the performance of the full pack. And of course there has to be some way for the battery BMSs to work together (I recommend ones that have a CANbus connection). It will probably cost more than the single battery you're looking at, but that's just what it takes for the full performance if you don't want any potential limitations. Prices and choices are much better than when I did my conversion almost 3 years ago. Still beats spending $30K for a Polaris Ranger EV UTV, and any choice is better than the Discover batteries.

That would be true in general, but their own website says that these particular batteries cannot be combined. There is no CANbus or bluetooth BMS communication capability enabled in the design to allow more than one battery to coordinate output and charging. Not having that communication means that over time an imbalance will result between more than one battery due to small differences in manufacturing or how they're wired. The BMS communication should compensate for that, although some batteries that have only a bluetooth link don't necessarily use it for battery to battery coordination, just to send individual battery information to a display or app. If achieving 400A continuous is important to you, you will have to wire multiple batteries in parallel to get that. As you might have discovered, there are no "reasonable" single batteries that can put out 400A continuous all on their own. So with multiple batteries, you need to make sure they can communicate with each other. A CANbus connection is probably best as a hardwire solution is foolproof and the connections are as easy as plugging in a cord.

Amp output when wired in series doesn't add. The voltages add to make ~48V but the total capacity and amp output stay the same. Also, all batteries have a limited time output that can exceed the continuous output spec, but the amount and length is battery-specific. So this apparently works for Gorj in how he uses it, he isn't paying for capability he doesn't need, and as he mentioned the weight reduction helps. Whether or not that works for you is your choice. Everyone has their own use case and cost vs capability trades tolerance, along with how much effort they want to put in to modifying their UTV (GC2 form-factor batteries you can just drop in vs whatever tray mods might be needed for a larger form battery), so there isn't necessarily a single solution. FYI, I might also mention that the original series-wired Discover batteries only ever had a max continuous discharge rate of 100A also, which I had always thought was a limitation. Probably the only reason the E1 could get to 400A output is that the batteries made use of the time-limited capability, but I could never find out what their specifications are for that.

As LAMA said, you would be leaving some performance on the table since the maximum continuous output current is 200A. Plus you cannot install more than one of these in parallel since they have not built in any ability for the BMS to communicate with other battery BMS' to prevent charge and load imbalances. It can hit 400A output for 35 sec. supposedly, which is longer than I've seen for these time-limited outputs, but your use case will determine what is acceptable to you. The E1 motor is capable of 400A, so personally that is why I made sure the continuous output of my batteries in parallel were capable of matching that. I know others have been happy with combinations that (on paper anyway) add up to less than that, so it's up to you what you want to accept, which admittedly also translates to cost. I regularly go up bumpy, rock-filled slopes hauling a full bed of firewood and even sometimes pulling a trailer, so I wanted to be sure and maximize the motor's capability. Contrary to what LAMA said, I don't think the regen would be a problem since that battery can accept up to 200A in charging, and the E1 only generates a max of 100A on regen (usually not even that). BuggyBoy's particular case is a bit unique since he starts out on the top of a hill and if the batteries are already at 100%, any BMS is going to limit that. EV cars are better integrated with their batteries and smart enough to not do regen when the batteries are full, but the Hisun isn't that smart. I agree that there probably is a charger profile for the onboard Delta-Q that would work, it's just that Vevor is trying to limit their liability since they aren't accounting for a regular golf cart lead battery charger being able to change it's charging profile like the Delta-Q can.

Definitely not normal. There should be warning codes displayed when it has a problem. Anything flash on the dash display?

While I would agree that the installer should have used two of those particular batteries, my opinion is based more on the fact that the output continuous discharge limit of that battery is 200A vs the 400A capability of the motor, not because of the regen input limits. His Newtipower 48v 135ah battery supposedly has a 200A BMS and a 2C rate. According to the Hisun dashboard meter the max regen input is 100A, so even his one battery should be capable of handling it. The other reason I'm not convinced it's the regen is that when BuggyBoy had issues with his BMS tripping due to reaching max capacity, it caused errors in the system requiring him to turn it off and back on, not locking the wheels, which I don't think a free spinning motor could do. "Locking the wheels" is definitely not normal, but there's something more to the issue. It would be interesting to know if that installer had ever put in two such batteries and to see how the UTV handles with that.

Interesting. Not how I would choose to do it since it required alteration of the trays to make it fit and a single 122lb battery is harder to load than four 35lb batteries. Plus, with a max continuous of 200A, it can't fully hit the potential of the 400A capable motor. However, batteries do have ratings for higher amps at a shorter duration, but I don't see those numbers listed anywhere on their website. At any rate, I would imagine any of the charging profiles for 48V LiFePO4 batteries would work for the Delta Q. The battery wouldn't explain a too aggressive regen though, so I would still check the parking brake mechanism. It's forward of the motor, under the dump bed. Did you confirm your 2023 model still uses the Delta Q charger?

The memory stick is any standard USB memory stick you would use for your computer. You just download the files from the Delta Q website and follow their instructions. The files get loaded on the memory stick from your computer, and then the instructions show how you plug the stick in to the covered USB port on the charger. No disassembly required - you can pretty easily reach it under the right front wheel well. However, profile #233 which some folks have used, might actually already be in the charger's memory and you just have to tell it to use that one. I don't remember what's resident in memory since I used a profile that had been made specifically for my brand of batteries, and the Delta Q website lists those too. What brand and model are your batteries? Also, this assumes you have the Delta Q charger. I don't know what year Hisun changed the onboard charger and the motor controller, but they were the Delta Q and Sevcon respectively at least as recent as 2022. Look at this thread, and on post #6 I list a number of links.

Almost all of my driving is done on 4WD Low because of the terrain on my property and of course as I mentioned I don't have the same amount of regen you do, although I do have that same table in my manual. I will switch out when I'm on pavement to reduce wear on the tires, but that isn't much. Please see my response to your other comment in a different thread about the 12V battery. I'm confused (and a little concerned) about how your seller treated charging. What brand and model of LiFePO4 batteries did he use and how many? Can you see how they are connected to each other (i.e. are there CANbus cables running between each of the batteries in addition to the power cables)? How is the "charger that came with the battery" wired/used, and is that Delta Q really still also installed? Are there wires running from the 12V battery to the small DC/DC converter mounted high up along the centerline on the same side as the 12V under the driver's seat?

Based on the above, I'm wondering (and a little confused) how the guy you bought yours from does his conversions. The way gridlock did his, and myself and a number of others here, we took out the 8 old lead AGM 6V GC2 form factor batteries wired in series and dropped in 48V LiFePO4 GC2 form factor batteries, usually four of them wired in parallel is enough, but more can be added. It depends on the replacement battery maker, but decent batteries have a BMS that allows for interconnection with the other batteries built-in BMSs via CANbus cables or maybe bluetooth. This lets all of them coordinate discharge and charging. This is usually also how the new display is wired. Most of us also just changed the charging profile used by the OEM charger located in the center front of the UTV (IC1200 model by Delta Q). A few used a different onboard or offboard charger, but if the Delta Q is still working it's not really necessary. Changing the profile just takes a memory stick and the profile and procedures you can download off the Delta Q website. So, back to the install done by your seller. I don't get why you would still have the OEM charger AND "the charger that came with the lithium battery" both connected. Is that other charger an off board one? The Delta Q charger charges the 48V main pack batteries and they in turn continuously top off the 12V battery through a DC/DC converter. If the seller is saying to plug in the OEM charger "for a while" to charge up the 12V, that doesn't make any sense given how the charging system is meant to operate. It does however make me think that he left the Delta Q connected but didn't change the charging profile, so it still feeds 48V+ volts based on the lead AGM profile to the new batteries. That would match him saying to not do full charging because using the lead profile could damage the new batteries. That's why there are different profiles that can be loaded into the charger; it's actually one of the nicer and more versatile pieces of equipment Hisun chose to use. As long as the DC/DC converter is still working, there is no need to do anything different to charge the 12V battery.

I hate to keep pointing to @EVSupport in the UK, but he's the only one here with the experience doing that. That said, he may not want to go down that particular rabbit hole. From what I can gather, it takes the DVT software, a particular USB to CAN converter (both of which could possibly run without a license if you can find old versions), and all the parameters specific to the Hisun setup. Even if you can obtain the correct versions of the first two items, I'm not so sure about the parameters without help from either Hisun or someone who has major experience with these particular UTVs. I have a feeling you'd waste less time driving the 5-6 hours.

But he's the one who did the conversion? Anyway, could you confirm if we're even talking about a Sevcon motor controller or the newer Chinese motor controllers? I still don't know when Hisun did the transition. The motor controller is mounted along the center between the batteries. Based on what I've seen, the new ones are branded "Tercel". If it is the old Sevcon and they didn't change the programming, I'd still check the parking brake mechanism. If it's a new one, I don't know what those are like.

Might want to have a conversation with whoever did the conversion. The screen you're talking about is not OEM equipment. Also, I can hit both the brake and accelerator at the same time for the exact scenario you're talking about. If the conversion was done by a 3rd party business like EVSupport has in the UK, they might have had the capability to alter the Sevcon programming (if the 2023 models still had that motor controller) and that could explain why it is reacting differently than my experience.

Thanks. I don't know if he has any experience with a real car EV regen, which is why I brought it up. We have two Teslas that we love (and we're old enough to have learned to drive on stick - for the US anyway), so I know what a good regen feels like, but at least what he's describing seems to have too narrow of a transition band from accelerating to full regen braking. I just wasn't sure if that had been noted in other 2023 or newer models. Also, what you're describing probably wouldn't account for being able to come to a complete stop on a hill from regen alone with no brake pedal application, unless his description isn't quite accurate. The regen in my 2020 could honestly be stronger in my opinion, but it would certainly be a problem if not implemented properly.

@EVSupport What has been your experience with the 2023 or newer E1s and regen braking? Is what Tommy2bits describing now normal? If so, if someone has the appropriate Sevcon reprogramming equipment and software can they alter the parameters to smooth out the regen?

Got it. I guess Hisun implemented a stronger regen, but did not do it well. In a car it allows fine speed control without being difficult or abrupt. Sounds like Hisun didn't factor enough pedal travel into its system to keep it from being jerky. That's a shame. I'm guessing the regen is built into the motor controller, so I'm not sure you can turn it off without reprogramming the motor controller. You could try getting a technical response out of Hisun to see if what you are experiencing is now their normal, but I don't know how responsive they are.

Well, if Hisun really has implemented a strong regen then that's actually good. If you don't have any experience with full battery electric vehicles it may seem strange at first. If they did it right, you're not really "fighting" against the engine. There's a point where the accelerator position is not applying electricity to move forward, nor regenerating electricity back into the battery and you are coasting at a constant speed. That point changes based on slope and vehicle speed and is controlled by computer. The idea is that you're controlling speed with the accelerator, not absolute power output like with a gas pedal. In EVs it's called "one pedal driving" because you have control over both the acceleration and deceleration with just the accelerator pedal without having to keep moving your foot from brake to accelerator. It's one of the things I really like about driving an electric car (especially in traffic) and I wish my E1 really did have a strong regen. The brakes can be "grabby" on a steep hill and makes it jerky trying to control speed coasting down a hill.

Cheapest real off-road work-capable UTVs I've found in the US that come with lithium batteries as original equipment are the Kandi Cowboy e10K starting at $16K and the Landmaster AMP starting at $18K for the 4x4 standard model. A brand new Hisun E1 starts at $12K with the lead batteries, and that's about the same as the equivalent gas model. If Hisun wanted to, I bet they could match that $16K price with lithium batteries easily. They've probably made the decision that anything more expensive won't sell in enough numbers to be worth their effort to export (for the US anyway). I would bet most people don't even think an electric UTV exists to even look for one, so the sales numbers are probably pretty low in the US so far. And frankly, a big name like Polaris advertising an electric UTV for $30K doesn't help matters. All that being said, if it weren't for the history and economies of scale behind gas engines, an electric UTV should actually be much cheaper and easier to manufacture than a gas model. Just like electric cars, it's going to take a while for the supply chain, manufacturing infrastructure, and consumer awareness to build to the point where the economic, convenience, and performance advantages of electric win out.

Hisun makes a 15kW lithium version that has some nice specs, but it's not available in the US and, like the other lithium powered UTVs, is very expensive. I found listings for it in New Zealand where it works out to over $20K US dollars, and in the UK that version goes for over $34K US dollars! Here in the US, the Polaris Ranger electric UTV starts at $30K. Despite the cost of adding lithium batteries to the lead battery version Sector E1 in the US, it's way less than any of those options - even if you put in a full eight 48V Lithium GC2 batteries, which is unnecessary for most users. In fact, you'd still come out at half the price even if you bought the E1 brand new and immediately replaced the Discover batteries rather than wait for them to wear out like the others on this forum. You can buy what are essentially glorified golf carts for the same price range, but they aren't even close to the same capability, especially off-road (or off-grass).

Mine is a 2020 model and both before and after the lithium conversion the regen has never been enough to completely stop the UTV on any slope, let alone a moderate to high slope. Also, unless Hisun has significantly changed something it doesn't have the ability to engage the friction brakes. That would require the addition of an actuator and better total system control. Since you saw the same thing on multiple units, maybe they did some change. Thing is, regen on its own can't hold the wheels still on a slope. It requires rotational movement to generate electricity which of course also slows down the UTV. Regardless of whether or not the batteries have cut themselves off, physics will dictate that on a slope the UTV will still roll forward. So in EV cars that can come to a complete stop that means they're either automatically applying the brakes at the very end when the speed is too slow to generate electricity (and stopping force) or actually applying electricity to the motor to stop the rest of the way to zero. I did see in a different thread that Hisun changed the motor controller from Sevcon to some other brand. If the ones you tested all have this new equipment, maybe they really did implement some added functionality. Only other explanation I have is if the parking brake isn't adjusted properly and is causing some friction that is being overcome when pushing the accelerator. The parking brake mechanism isn't exactly the best in the world.

Haven't heard of anyone with this problem. Other than following the parts of the wiring diagram like you're doing, I would also just try a full battery (48V & 12V) off/disconnected reset if you haven't already tried it to see if that resyncs the different components.

He seemed to think the cables were fine. I think he has a particularly long hill he always has to use and he was reaching max on the motor output. It's in this thread Posts #52, 54, and 61 lay out his problem and troubleshooting. Worth coming back to if you have problems. I believe his Allion GC2 batteries have a listed max continuous output of 60A, 65A for 30 seconds, and 100A for 10 seconds. It probably comes down to variances from battery to battery and how good the BMS is at keeping discharges equal between all of them.

For me the Hisun dashboard seems accurate when it works, but sometimes it seems like it doesn't show anything at all, including speed. Probably not related to the batteries as much as a finicky dash display control board. I haven't bothered troubleshooting since the actual operation of the UTV is always fine. When you say 30-35A draw displayed, do you mean the needle is just barely moving up? Because the dial itself is of course "x10A" so the number "30" is actually 300. Going up hills I find the draw is usually 200-300A, so if the draw shown really was indicating only 30 that seems low.

Something to file in the back of your mind if it comes up, BuggyBoy (who's in Australia and used a different battery maker) ran into some problems with his four batteries becoming unbalanced and throwing some temporary charging errors because he was exceeding the max amp output of the batteries for too long (I think he has a pretty long hill). He laid out the details recently on one of the other battery threads here. Along with not being many options at the time, one of the reasons I went with my battery maker despite the cost was that each battery was capable of 100A continuous output to match the max motor draw. I believe your LiTime batteries have a max continuous output of 60A, but are rated to put out up to 120A for up to 5 seconds and up to 300A for up to 1 second. So with an (on paper) max continuous discharge of 240A (4 x 60A) you could potentially overdraw on the batteries if you have a steep, long hill. Depending on your use and however much of a safety margin their engineers designed in you might be fine, but just keep in mind you might have to add as many as 3 more batteries to hit a max continuous output of 400A. The upside would be that if you do have to do that, you'll have that much more total capacity (range). Just wanted you to know.

You're very welcome. I'm glad that you're happy with the performance. Even new, those Discover batteries were definitely a weak point to this UTV. Nice brackets by the way. EVSupport can answer better than me, but he has the resources to reprogram the Sevcon. I believe it takes dedicated equipment and software, and for his conversions he was using repurposed car EV batteries that might have needed the change. Now that they have GC2 lithium batteries deliberately made to replace golf cart batteries, I think reprogramming the Sevcon probably isn't necessary. I've been working just fine for over two years now without touching the Sevcon. There is a piece in one of the other threads where the 12V battery is discussed. I also own two Teslas and they also have a 12V battery. It runs some of the electrics that only work off of 12V, acts as a buffer, and I think it also is used to "wake up" the system when you turn the key. You might be able to find a 12V lithium that works, but the DC/DC converter onboard is made to work with a lead battery. There is a strong chance that the 12V charging could have problems due to the new battery having a BMS that is expecting different charging parameters, and you can't reprogram that like you could the Delta-Q. The small lead battery isn't that expensive and is pretty easy to swap out every 3-4 years. You do have to occasionally check it though by turning off your 48V batteries and testing the voltage after it sits. Reason being that since the 48V system constantly tops off the 12V, it could be masking a failing 12V battery. When I checked it (4 years old), I found it was down to 6 volts without the 48V system propping it up. Probably many different camps regarding charge limits. Personally I just don't worry about it and plug in, letting the BMS handle things. It might be better to let the charge go down occasionally for BMS calibration, but just like with my Teslas, I just don't bother. For my cars, some people say just charge to 80%, or say limit supercharging. I just have it set at 90% like originally suggested and plug in every time I come home, and their batteries are doing just fine at almost 8 years old. I know I can't set the UTV batteries to 90%, but again I'm just trusting the BMS. I find that it charges to 100%, and then the batteries let things settle if I don't use it for a while until natural drain eventually falls to ~95% before charging again.