GNFO

Mine is a 2020 model and both before and after the lithium conversion the regen has never been enough to completely stop the UTV on any slope, let alone a moderate to high slope. Also, unless Hisun has significantly changed something it doesn't have the ability to engage the friction brakes. That would require the addition of an actuator and better total system control. Since you saw the same thing on multiple units, maybe they did some change. Thing is, regen on its own can't hold the wheels still on a slope. It requires rotational movement to generate electricity which of course also slows down the UTV. Regardless of whether or not the batteries have cut themselves off, physics will dictate that on a slope the UTV will still roll forward. So in EV cars that can come to a complete stop that means they're either automatically applying the brakes at the very end when the speed is too slow to generate electricity (and stopping force) or actually applying electricity to the motor to stop the rest of the way to zero. I did see in a different thread that Hisun changed the motor controller from Sevcon to some other brand. If the ones you tested all have this new equipment, maybe they really did implement some added functionality. Only other explanation I have is if the parking brake isn't adjusted properly and is causing some friction that is being overcome when pushing the accelerator. The parking brake mechanism isn't exactly the best in the world.

Haven't heard of anyone with this problem. Other than following the parts of the wiring diagram like you're doing, I would also just try a full battery (48V & 12V) off/disconnected reset if you haven't already tried it to see if that resyncs the different components.

He seemed to think the cables were fine. I think he has a particularly long hill he always has to use and he was reaching max on the motor output. It's in this thread Posts #52, 54, and 61 lay out his problem and troubleshooting. Worth coming back to if you have problems. I believe his Allion GC2 batteries have a listed max continuous output of 60A, 65A for 30 seconds, and 100A for 10 seconds. It probably comes down to variances from battery to battery and how good the BMS is at keeping discharges equal between all of them.

For me the Hisun dashboard seems accurate when it works, but sometimes it seems like it doesn't show anything at all, including speed. Probably not related to the batteries as much as a finicky dash display control board. I haven't bothered troubleshooting since the actual operation of the UTV is always fine. When you say 30-35A draw displayed, do you mean the needle is just barely moving up? Because the dial itself is of course "x10A" so the number "30" is actually 300. Going up hills I find the draw is usually 200-300A, so if the draw shown really was indicating only 30 that seems low.

Something to file in the back of your mind if it comes up, BuggyBoy (who's in Australia and used a different battery maker) ran into some problems with his four batteries becoming unbalanced and throwing some temporary charging errors because he was exceeding the max amp output of the batteries for too long (I think he has a pretty long hill). He laid out the details recently on one of the other battery threads here. Along with not being many options at the time, one of the reasons I went with my battery maker despite the cost was that each battery was capable of 100A continuous output to match the max motor draw. I believe your LiTime batteries have a max continuous output of 60A, but are rated to put out up to 120A for up to 5 seconds and up to 300A for up to 1 second. So with an (on paper) max continuous discharge of 240A (4 x 60A) you could potentially overdraw on the batteries if you have a steep, long hill. Depending on your use and however much of a safety margin their engineers designed in you might be fine, but just keep in mind you might have to add as many as 3 more batteries to hit a max continuous output of 400A. The upside would be that if you do have to do that, you'll have that much more total capacity (range). Just wanted you to know.

You're very welcome. I'm glad that you're happy with the performance. Even new, those Discover batteries were definitely a weak point to this UTV. Nice brackets by the way. EVSupport can answer better than me, but he has the resources to reprogram the Sevcon. I believe it takes dedicated equipment and software, and for his conversions he was using repurposed car EV batteries that might have needed the change. Now that they have GC2 lithium batteries deliberately made to replace golf cart batteries, I think reprogramming the Sevcon probably isn't necessary. I've been working just fine for over two years now without touching the Sevcon. There is a piece in one of the other threads where the 12V battery is discussed. I also own two Teslas and they also have a 12V battery. It runs some of the electrics that only work off of 12V, acts as a buffer, and I think it also is used to "wake up" the system when you turn the key. You might be able to find a 12V lithium that works, but the DC/DC converter onboard is made to work with a lead battery. There is a strong chance that the 12V charging could have problems due to the new battery having a BMS that is expecting different charging parameters, and you can't reprogram that like you could the Delta-Q. The small lead battery isn't that expensive and is pretty easy to swap out every 3-4 years. You do have to occasionally check it though by turning off your 48V batteries and testing the voltage after it sits. Reason being that since the 48V system constantly tops off the 12V, it could be masking a failing 12V battery. When I checked it (4 years old), I found it was down to 6 volts without the 48V system propping it up. Probably many different camps regarding charge limits. Personally I just don't worry about it and plug in, letting the BMS handle things. It might be better to let the charge go down occasionally for BMS calibration, but just like with my Teslas, I just don't bother. For my cars, some people say just charge to 80%, or say limit supercharging. I just have it set at 90% like originally suggested and plug in every time I come home, and their batteries are doing just fine at almost 8 years old. I know I can't set the UTV batteries to 90%, but again I'm just trusting the BMS. I find that it charges to 100%, and then the batteries let things settle if I don't use it for a while until natural drain eventually falls to ~95% before charging again.

Obviously I can only tell you what I see on mine, but so far I believe we have the same setup. As discussed before, the green wire on mine is not connected to anything. It has a plug connector on the end which seems to have burned up on yours, leaving just that red strain relief that I recognize. In fact, mine has a tag on it that says "Do not connect green wire to ground or battery negative - for interlock use only". The red wire is connected to the positive terminal on the 48V battery at the end of the parallel set, the connector with the black and white wires is connected to the negative terminal on the 48V battery at the other end of the parallel set. I have the same open terminals below the yellow and red wire connections (although my yellow and red are reverse from yours - maybe it doesn't matter.) Finally, I have the same loose six pin connector you show. It's just zip tied to the frame with no connection. I'm guessing that it's like the green wire - for use in a configuration different than ours or maybe even unneeded because Hisun used a common wire harness. My batteries came with about 60% charge and with the CANbus connections supposedly letting the BMSs talk to each other, the manufacturer didn't say anything about charging individually first. I think using the Delta Q to individually charge the batteries should be fine though; just remember to change the charging profile first. It's also going to be a bit of a pain because of where the cables from the Sevcon are, but that's probably a good idea.

Since the four batteries are wired in series, your capacity and output are the same as one battery because they're being used to get the voltage up to 48V. So continuous output will be 110A (with some amount of surge above that for a brief period), and since the Wh of a single battery is 1280Wh (printed on the side of the battery), that means your total capacity is also 1280Wh, or about 107Ah. It's that nuance about series vs parallel batteries where the Hisun numbers in their advertising with the Discover cells is just plain wrong. They list the sum of all 8 batteries as if that's the total capacity, but because they're in series to get the voltage up to 48V, you can't add them up. I was asking about what you noticed on the power because the motor can take up to 400A for max torque, but on paper your batteries have a max continuous of 110A. It's the same deal as the Discover batteries. On paper they can only put out 100A, but can surge higher than that for a limited amount of time. If you're happy with the performance and range, none of this matters. I just wanted to make sure you were aware how the numbers add up.

Glad you're happy with them. There is definitely a huge difference in weight. Out of curiosity, with them wired in series you're max continuous output would only be 100A, although from what I could see online they can put out up to 300A for a much shorter time (usually measured in seconds, but I couldn't find the detailed specs from them). What are you seeing in practice? Plus I'm guessing 100aH is enough capacity for the way you use your UTV? I believe those have a bluetooth connection, although they may not coordinate between each other for load balancing. I don't know if that could be an issue long term, but it would probably be a good idea to monitor the individual battery charges separately in the app until you have a good idea.

That's great. Good luck with the conversion. You'll be much happier with the performance. I believe @ScottKN used LiTime also and reprogrammed the charger with profile #233. He talked about his conversion on (I think) the second page of that "Hisun Sector e1 Battery replacement: any tips?" thread. He was later having some other problem with his UTV that he didn't think was related to the batteries, but I haven't seen anything since.

Mine are CANbus so that's my experience. Undoubtedly bluetooth means there is one less thing to install, but then of course you have to rely on your phone to see the battery state. I personally like the dependability of a hard wire connection and a display that I don't need my phone for, but that's personal preference. The primary purpose for either connection is supposed to be BMS coordination between the batteries, and the readout is a perk. You don't have to connect a display, but it's nice to have.

I wondered about it too, but the nice thing about batteries that are already the GC2 form is that after a little bit of use, if you realize you need more capacity you can easily just add more in parallel later to the existing empty spots. It is recommended to stay with the same model though so the BMSs can talk to each other. How many is very much dependent on your usage. I use mine just for hauling firewood/log splitter/other landscape type work around my 6 acres. It's pretty hilly so I definitely appreciate and need the full 400A draw the four batteries give me for hauling power, but I don't put much in the way of actual miles on mine. Even with adding bar lights and a 48V 2500W inverter so I can use electric power tools, I've never gone below 75% in one day, and of course I can plug it in at night. If you are the type to take it 10-20 miles out into the wilderness without the time or ability to recharge off of portable solar, or you have to go a number of days of moderate to heavy usage before you can recharge, then you probably want more batteries.

If it helps, my manual is for the Axis E1, which is just a re-branded version of the Hisun sold at Lowe's. It also says change the oil after the first 100 miles and then every 500 miles after that. There are operating time and calendar time limits too (50 hrs/6 months), but who's going to change their gear oil every six months? 🙂

Like you, I can't find any mention of that fault code, so anything from me is just speculation. You didn't mention if there are any associated symptoms, but generically the recommendations I can find are to check the wiring connections, especially between the motor controller and motor, and try a reset of everything by unplugging the UTV and disconnecting the batteries for some time so things can reset. I've seen some suggestions that it could be related to out of spec battery voltage, which is definitely possible if you're still with the original Discover batteries although that's not the normal 4C53 code we have all seen. If you want to go through the trouble you could fully charge the batteries and then individually check the voltages after disconnecting all of them from each other. Other than that, it's communicating with Hisun or a Hisun dealer, which can be a little hit or miss as I understand it.

The CANbus really isn't anything more than plugging in the communication cables the battery company should provide. It's nothing you have to set up - it's a feature of the batteries. Just need to research the specs of whatever battery you go with or even email them if necessary. I feel fairly certain that green wire is the charging interlock. For whatever reason it wasn't required on ours. Probably a country specific thing, like the "big red button" to disconnect the batteries that apparently the UK version has that mine doesn't in the US.

Yep. That's it. They have pictures on their website, but that's what that is.

I am assuming your E1 has the Delta-Q IC1200. I think more recently they might have changed makers, but I'm not sure and I think yours is probably old enough. Mine is a 2020 model. It's easy enough to just look under the driver's front wheel well and see it in the center of the UTV. The Delta-Q website looks like it has been updated with more lithium battery support than when I did the conversion, so that's good. Let me just give you links so it's coming from the official source: https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016475772-Changing-Algorithms-on-IC-Series-Chargers https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/14188856858893-Choosing-an-Algorithm-for-a-Lithium-Battery https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015622651-Which-Algorithm-Charge-profile-should-I-use-for-my-battery https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015622311-Download-Algorithms-for-IC-Series-Chargers

I do have the red wire and it is connected directly to a positive terminal, but it looks like it becomes part of a bundle along with the white and black wires that runs forward. So what I see on mine is slightly different than what I can see from that picture but maybe it's just the aspect. At any rate I would definitely fix that. For the lithium conversion, look at the "Hisun Sector e1 Battery replacement: any tips?" thread. There's a lot of good info there. Some have used one of the existing algorithms already loaded, some have changed the charger, some just use an offboard charger. For me, I went with ReLion Insight 48V GC2 batteries. Mostly because at the time they were the only ones available that had a 100A continuous output each, so four in parallel gives me 400A. The company had a Delta-Q IC1200 profile made just for them and they sent me the files and instructions to flash the new profile using a USB stick. Works great. Also, a good lithium battery will have an internal BMS that prevents the charging issue you talked about. It will also have either a physical CANbus connection between the batteries or an internal bluetooth link that allows all the batteries in parallel to coordinate their BMSs to manage load balancing between them. Mine use a CANbus, which also feeds a digital readout I installed in the dash so I can see the real state of the batteries rather than just a stacked bar. The lithium isn't cheap and will probably cost more than AGM to begin with if you want the full 400A capability, but is usually warrantied for 2 or 3 times the life of a lead-based battery. It was a night and day difference when I changed over. They're also much lighter, so I went from 8 x 65 lb Discover batteries to 4 x 36 lb lithium. The range from my 120aH is plenty for me (~12 miles in 4wd low with two people on tough terrain or maybe double that on flat ground), but if I really wanted it I can always add up to four more. Lithium can discharge much lower than lead-acid and frankly Hisun's range and amp-hours claims are suspect.

Funny enough, on mine that green wire terminates in a connection fitting but isn't actually connected to anything. The red wire certainly looks bad. On the wiring diagram there aren't a lot of all green wires and my best guess is that is supposed to be connected a charging interlock, while the red wire isn't part of that so it is something else. I might point out that I just verified that, for better or worse, my E1 will actually move with the cord connected, so apparently I don't have that interlock and things work just fine without it. I don't see how the batteries themselves could be at fault for the burned wires problem. Maybe try splicing the red wire (which already looks like it's been spliced before) and leave the green disconnected? I can't tell from the picture if it looks like the red and green wires used to be somehow connected, which I don't think are supposed to be. Of course, you're going to have to put the four batteries you removed back in to test it since all eight Discovers are required to make 48V. Regarding the change to lithium, you don't have to change the charger, just change the charging algorithm the Delta-Q uses. Mine has been just fine for two years now. Regarding other batteries, you need to make sure their continuous amp output adds up to at least 400A to match the motor's capability. The GC2 form factor was originally made for golf carts that aren't nearly as powerful as an off-road capable UTV. My complaint with the original Discover batteries was that they were always incapable of providing full power on hills and I did wind up replacing them with lithium at around the 3 year mark.

Time to talk to Allion. When you first brought it up, I wasn't sure if the battery BMSs talked to each other since those are a different brand than mine, but if they are connected to each other through CANbus they certainly should. Hopefully it's just the reporting itself that's faulty and not the actual battery performance, but either way it seems like an Allion problem.

I defer to EVSupport, but that doesn't even remotely look like what's in mine (a 2020 model).

Welcome! If you haven't found it yet, read through this thread: Short answer is, you don't have to mess with the controller and you can use the existing charger as long as you change the charging profile to one that is lithium specific.

Yes. Looking at the wiring diagram, how the main batteries are charged shouldn't matter, the 12V is charged off the main pack. Which would just make sense since that little 12V wouldn't run the headlights for very long without topping off while driving and I'm fairly certain the Delta Q isn't powered unless plugged in to AC. When I was checking my 12V battery health, I also recall checking the 12V input when not plugged in and the "ignition" off and it was still live as long as the 48V batteries were on. Did you check the fuse on the positive line from the DC to DC converter to the 12V battery? That's the only other thing I can think of that could have failed.

I use the Delta Q, but as I understand it, the charger shouldn't matter. The 12V gets topped off from a DC to DC converter straight off the 48V batteries.

OK, thanks. That's pretty neat and that's about the only use case I can think of to need that kind of capacity. On this forum the only one I know of who has gotten into the technical details of the motor controller is @EVSupport. I believe they are in the UK and have done custom lithium pack conversions, including Sevcon programming, before off-the-shelf GC2 form factor batteries became available like I used.