GNFO

Temu has country-specific pages and that one won't come up for me. But regardless I think you have the idea on the trade-offs. The risk of course with any cheap battery is that it could turn into a brick in a year and you have to weigh cost vs risk. Mine were quite expensive, but it was early on in the development of the LiFePO4 battery market and they have a 10 year warranty with a full replacement with no pro-rating in the first 7 years. They also were quick with technical support and provided their own custom made charging profile to update the Delta-Q charger. Granted, I didn't have a lot of options at the time, but it's been worth it for me and I use the UTV all the time. Would I go with something like the LiTime batteries if I were doing it now? Maybe... From an actual safety standpoint the main risk from any high powered battery system is fire, even with the old Discover batteries. I don't think it's a huge injury risk while the UTV is operating, in that you'll smell it right away and emergency egress from an open side-by-side is pretty easy. 🙂 The brakes are mechanical and will still work if there is a power failure. Of course the other side of the fire risk is while they are charging and setting fire to something nearby like those e-bike battery fires that got attention in New York. That was why I recommended finding any real reviews from people actually using them that you can. Even if you aren't going to buy them off of Amazon, sometimes these off-brands are also available there and you can look for those reviews. I would hope batteries of this size, even the cheap ones, would be safer from that standpoint than small e-bike batteries, but if there are enough reviews that seem to be from real customers it should help ease any concerns.

I can't access that link, but at least they say it can be wired in parallel. If nothing else, the particular Vevor battery you pointed to before wouldn't have had any warranty support if you tried to wire more than one. EVSupport is correct that there is less risk in parallel wiring than series, as they can eventually level themselves, but the risk isn't zero. Particularly if you are pushing the capacity of the batteries and they don't have time to self-level. If the different batteries you're linking to can, combined in parallel, add up to more than 400A continuous output, you'll probably be fine. Personally I still would want them to be able to cross communicate between their BMSs, but it will work without that. Chances are you'll be fine, but their longevity will probably come down to how hard you push them and the quality of the batteries themselves. A smart interconnected BMS helps reduce some of that risk. In a way you can look at it like insurance, you may never need it, but you may also be glad you have it. On a non-technical topic, please be sure the brand name of the battery you're looking at has good customer service reviews (that weren't generated by a bot). I probably don't need to tell you that the wild west of Temu or AliExpress can be hit or miss.

Less likely, but from what I've seen it's still possible. At any rate, given that the manufacturer themselves say not to, wiring two of those particular batteries would almost certainly invalidate the warranty.

I believe he means in order to accommodate the maximum possible demand the Sevcon might try to pull. Probably made more of an issue if that draw beyond the capability of the batteries is combined with a bank of more than one battery and the draw could possibly become uneven across the set. A good interconnected BMS should even that out some. Regarding the output of the particular battery you listed, 200A is indeed about the max for a single battery one can easily find, but that doesn't meet the possible maximum draw the Hisun motor can take, which is more powerful than the golf cart motors that battery was meant to supply. That's why a parallel bank of batteries is needed to collectively provide the total amps that just one battery can't.

The one he has a link to doesn't have any means to interconnect the BMSs from multiple batteries for smart load balancing. Their own FAQs say not to connect multiple batteries together because they will become unbalanced.

One last thing to consider. If you go with the one battery you're looking at, that's it. You can't choose to add another one if you find you want more capability. When I went with my four ReLion batteries (48V, 100A continuous output, 30Ah capacity) I knew the combined 400A continuous output would be fine, but wasn't sure if I would be happy with a total of 120Ah of capacity. I knew that if I wanted to, I could just add up to four more batteries if I needed the range. Turns out I'm just fine with 120Ah for the way I use it, but the flexibility was there. You won't have the option to change your mind if you go with that particular Vevor model.

EVSupport and Gorj both answered before I could, so I'll just add this: If you think you're fine with the 200A max continuous output (and 400A output for 35 sec.) and you're set on this particular battery, just go with one. You absolutely should not do two. If you want to ensure you have the full capability of the motor covered, I would suggest looking into a number of other 48V GC2 form factor batteries that are now available. Based on the link you posted I'm guessing you're in Canada, so availability should be close to what we have in the US. Look at the max continuous output and Ah capacity and know that when you wire them in parallel, you can add those numbers to get the performance of the full pack. And of course there has to be some way for the battery BMSs to work together (I recommend ones that have a CANbus connection). It will probably cost more than the single battery you're looking at, but that's just what it takes for the full performance if you don't want any potential limitations. Prices and choices are much better than when I did my conversion almost 3 years ago. Still beats spending $30K for a Polaris Ranger EV UTV, and any choice is better than the Discover batteries.

That would be true in general, but their own website says that these particular batteries cannot be combined. There is no CANbus or bluetooth BMS communication capability enabled in the design to allow more than one battery to coordinate output and charging. Not having that communication means that over time an imbalance will result between more than one battery due to small differences in manufacturing or how they're wired. The BMS communication should compensate for that, although some batteries that have only a bluetooth link don't necessarily use it for battery to battery coordination, just to send individual battery information to a display or app. If achieving 400A continuous is important to you, you will have to wire multiple batteries in parallel to get that. As you might have discovered, there are no "reasonable" single batteries that can put out 400A continuous all on their own. So with multiple batteries, you need to make sure they can communicate with each other. A CANbus connection is probably best as a hardwire solution is foolproof and the connections are as easy as plugging in a cord.

Amp output when wired in series doesn't add. The voltages add to make ~48V but the total capacity and amp output stay the same. Also, all batteries have a limited time output that can exceed the continuous output spec, but the amount and length is battery-specific. So this apparently works for Gorj in how he uses it, he isn't paying for capability he doesn't need, and as he mentioned the weight reduction helps. Whether or not that works for you is your choice. Everyone has their own use case and cost vs capability trades tolerance, along with how much effort they want to put in to modifying their UTV (GC2 form-factor batteries you can just drop in vs whatever tray mods might be needed for a larger form battery), so there isn't necessarily a single solution. FYI, I might also mention that the original series-wired Discover batteries only ever had a max continuous discharge rate of 100A also, which I had always thought was a limitation. Probably the only reason the E1 could get to 400A output is that the batteries made use of the time-limited capability, but I could never find out what their specifications are for that.

As LAMA said, you would be leaving some performance on the table since the maximum continuous output current is 200A. Plus you cannot install more than one of these in parallel since they have not built in any ability for the BMS to communicate with other battery BMS' to prevent charge and load imbalances. It can hit 400A output for 35 sec. supposedly, which is longer than I've seen for these time-limited outputs, but your use case will determine what is acceptable to you. The E1 motor is capable of 400A, so personally that is why I made sure the continuous output of my batteries in parallel were capable of matching that. I know others have been happy with combinations that (on paper anyway) add up to less than that, so it's up to you what you want to accept, which admittedly also translates to cost. I regularly go up bumpy, rock-filled slopes hauling a full bed of firewood and even sometimes pulling a trailer, so I wanted to be sure and maximize the motor's capability. Contrary to what LAMA said, I don't think the regen would be a problem since that battery can accept up to 200A in charging, and the E1 only generates a max of 100A on regen (usually not even that). BuggyBoy's particular case is a bit unique since he starts out on the top of a hill and if the batteries are already at 100%, any BMS is going to limit that. EV cars are better integrated with their batteries and smart enough to not do regen when the batteries are full, but the Hisun isn't that smart. I agree that there probably is a charger profile for the onboard Delta-Q that would work, it's just that Vevor is trying to limit their liability since they aren't accounting for a regular golf cart lead battery charger being able to change it's charging profile like the Delta-Q can.

Definitely not normal. There should be warning codes displayed when it has a problem. Anything flash on the dash display?

While I would agree that the installer should have used two of those particular batteries, my opinion is based more on the fact that the output continuous discharge limit of that battery is 200A vs the 400A capability of the motor, not because of the regen input limits. His Newtipower 48v 135ah battery supposedly has a 200A BMS and a 2C rate. According to the Hisun dashboard meter the max regen input is 100A, so even his one battery should be capable of handling it. The other reason I'm not convinced it's the regen is that when BuggyBoy had issues with his BMS tripping due to reaching max capacity, it caused errors in the system requiring him to turn it off and back on, not locking the wheels, which I don't think a free spinning motor could do. "Locking the wheels" is definitely not normal, but there's something more to the issue. It would be interesting to know if that installer had ever put in two such batteries and to see how the UTV handles with that.

Interesting. Not how I would choose to do it since it required alteration of the trays to make it fit and a single 122lb battery is harder to load than four 35lb batteries. Plus, with a max continuous of 200A, it can't fully hit the potential of the 400A capable motor. However, batteries do have ratings for higher amps at a shorter duration, but I don't see those numbers listed anywhere on their website. At any rate, I would imagine any of the charging profiles for 48V LiFePO4 batteries would work for the Delta Q. The battery wouldn't explain a too aggressive regen though, so I would still check the parking brake mechanism. It's forward of the motor, under the dump bed. Did you confirm your 2023 model still uses the Delta Q charger?

The memory stick is any standard USB memory stick you would use for your computer. You just download the files from the Delta Q website and follow their instructions. The files get loaded on the memory stick from your computer, and then the instructions show how you plug the stick in to the covered USB port on the charger. No disassembly required - you can pretty easily reach it under the right front wheel well. However, profile #233 which some folks have used, might actually already be in the charger's memory and you just have to tell it to use that one. I don't remember what's resident in memory since I used a profile that had been made specifically for my brand of batteries, and the Delta Q website lists those too. What brand and model are your batteries? Also, this assumes you have the Delta Q charger. I don't know what year Hisun changed the onboard charger and the motor controller, but they were the Delta Q and Sevcon respectively at least as recent as 2022. Look at this thread, and on post #6 I list a number of links.

Almost all of my driving is done on 4WD Low because of the terrain on my property and of course as I mentioned I don't have the same amount of regen you do, although I do have that same table in my manual. I will switch out when I'm on pavement to reduce wear on the tires, but that isn't much. Please see my response to your other comment in a different thread about the 12V battery. I'm confused (and a little concerned) about how your seller treated charging. What brand and model of LiFePO4 batteries did he use and how many? Can you see how they are connected to each other (i.e. are there CANbus cables running between each of the batteries in addition to the power cables)? How is the "charger that came with the battery" wired/used, and is that Delta Q really still also installed? Are there wires running from the 12V battery to the small DC/DC converter mounted high up along the centerline on the same side as the 12V under the driver's seat?

Based on the above, I'm wondering (and a little confused) how the guy you bought yours from does his conversions. The way gridlock did his, and myself and a number of others here, we took out the 8 old lead AGM 6V GC2 form factor batteries wired in series and dropped in 48V LiFePO4 GC2 form factor batteries, usually four of them wired in parallel is enough, but more can be added. It depends on the replacement battery maker, but decent batteries have a BMS that allows for interconnection with the other batteries built-in BMSs via CANbus cables or maybe bluetooth. This lets all of them coordinate discharge and charging. This is usually also how the new display is wired. Most of us also just changed the charging profile used by the OEM charger located in the center front of the UTV (IC1200 model by Delta Q). A few used a different onboard or offboard charger, but if the Delta Q is still working it's not really necessary. Changing the profile just takes a memory stick and the profile and procedures you can download off the Delta Q website. So, back to the install done by your seller. I don't get why you would still have the OEM charger AND "the charger that came with the lithium battery" both connected. Is that other charger an off board one? The Delta Q charger charges the 48V main pack batteries and they in turn continuously top off the 12V battery through a DC/DC converter. If the seller is saying to plug in the OEM charger "for a while" to charge up the 12V, that doesn't make any sense given how the charging system is meant to operate. It does however make me think that he left the Delta Q connected but didn't change the charging profile, so it still feeds 48V+ volts based on the lead AGM profile to the new batteries. That would match him saying to not do full charging because using the lead profile could damage the new batteries. That's why there are different profiles that can be loaded into the charger; it's actually one of the nicer and more versatile pieces of equipment Hisun chose to use. As long as the DC/DC converter is still working, there is no need to do anything different to charge the 12V battery.

I hate to keep pointing to @EVSupport in the UK, but he's the only one here with the experience doing that. That said, he may not want to go down that particular rabbit hole. From what I can gather, it takes the DVT software, a particular USB to CAN converter (both of which could possibly run without a license if you can find old versions), and all the parameters specific to the Hisun setup. Even if you can obtain the correct versions of the first two items, I'm not so sure about the parameters without help from either Hisun or someone who has major experience with these particular UTVs. I have a feeling you'd waste less time driving the 5-6 hours.

But he's the one who did the conversion? Anyway, could you confirm if we're even talking about a Sevcon motor controller or the newer Chinese motor controllers? I still don't know when Hisun did the transition. The motor controller is mounted along the center between the batteries. Based on what I've seen, the new ones are branded "Tercel". If it is the old Sevcon and they didn't change the programming, I'd still check the parking brake mechanism. If it's a new one, I don't know what those are like.

Might want to have a conversation with whoever did the conversion. The screen you're talking about is not OEM equipment. Also, I can hit both the brake and accelerator at the same time for the exact scenario you're talking about. If the conversion was done by a 3rd party business like EVSupport has in the UK, they might have had the capability to alter the Sevcon programming (if the 2023 models still had that motor controller) and that could explain why it is reacting differently than my experience.

Thanks. I don't know if he has any experience with a real car EV regen, which is why I brought it up. We have two Teslas that we love (and we're old enough to have learned to drive on stick - for the US anyway), so I know what a good regen feels like, but at least what he's describing seems to have too narrow of a transition band from accelerating to full regen braking. I just wasn't sure if that had been noted in other 2023 or newer models. Also, what you're describing probably wouldn't account for being able to come to a complete stop on a hill from regen alone with no brake pedal application, unless his description isn't quite accurate. The regen in my 2020 could honestly be stronger in my opinion, but it would certainly be a problem if not implemented properly.

@EVSupport What has been your experience with the 2023 or newer E1s and regen braking? Is what Tommy2bits describing now normal? If so, if someone has the appropriate Sevcon reprogramming equipment and software can they alter the parameters to smooth out the regen?

Got it. I guess Hisun implemented a stronger regen, but did not do it well. In a car it allows fine speed control without being difficult or abrupt. Sounds like Hisun didn't factor enough pedal travel into its system to keep it from being jerky. That's a shame. I'm guessing the regen is built into the motor controller, so I'm not sure you can turn it off without reprogramming the motor controller. You could try getting a technical response out of Hisun to see if what you are experiencing is now their normal, but I don't know how responsive they are.

Well, if Hisun really has implemented a strong regen then that's actually good. If you don't have any experience with full battery electric vehicles it may seem strange at first. If they did it right, you're not really "fighting" against the engine. There's a point where the accelerator position is not applying electricity to move forward, nor regenerating electricity back into the battery and you are coasting at a constant speed. That point changes based on slope and vehicle speed and is controlled by computer. The idea is that you're controlling speed with the accelerator, not absolute power output like with a gas pedal. In EVs it's called "one pedal driving" because you have control over both the acceleration and deceleration with just the accelerator pedal without having to keep moving your foot from brake to accelerator. It's one of the things I really like about driving an electric car (especially in traffic) and I wish my E1 really did have a strong regen. The brakes can be "grabby" on a steep hill and makes it jerky trying to control speed coasting down a hill.

Cheapest real off-road work-capable UTVs I've found in the US that come with lithium batteries as original equipment are the Kandi Cowboy e10K starting at $16K and the Landmaster AMP starting at $18K for the 4x4 standard model. A brand new Hisun E1 starts at $12K with the lead batteries, and that's about the same as the equivalent gas model. If Hisun wanted to, I bet they could match that $16K price with lithium batteries easily. They've probably made the decision that anything more expensive won't sell in enough numbers to be worth their effort to export (for the US anyway). I would bet most people don't even think an electric UTV exists to even look for one, so the sales numbers are probably pretty low in the US so far. And frankly, a big name like Polaris advertising an electric UTV for $30K doesn't help matters. All that being said, if it weren't for the history and economies of scale behind gas engines, an electric UTV should actually be much cheaper and easier to manufacture than a gas model. Just like electric cars, it's going to take a while for the supply chain, manufacturing infrastructure, and consumer awareness to build to the point where the economic, convenience, and performance advantages of electric win out.

Hisun makes a 15kW lithium version that has some nice specs, but it's not available in the US and, like the other lithium powered UTVs, is very expensive. I found listings for it in New Zealand where it works out to over $20K US dollars, and in the UK that version goes for over $34K US dollars! Here in the US, the Polaris Ranger electric UTV starts at $30K. Despite the cost of adding lithium batteries to the lead battery version Sector E1 in the US, it's way less than any of those options - even if you put in a full eight 48V Lithium GC2 batteries, which is unnecessary for most users. In fact, you'd still come out at half the price even if you bought the E1 brand new and immediately replaced the Discover batteries rather than wait for them to wear out like the others on this forum. You can buy what are essentially glorified golf carts for the same price range, but they aren't even close to the same capability, especially off-road (or off-grass).