2020 Massimo Buck 400 - Won't start

[Dave N.]

2020 Massimo Buck 400 - Won't start. Can hear the starter spinning, but motor never turns. Relay? Starter? Worked fine one day and not the next. Thanks for any help you can provide.

[T-boss 410]

I don't know if this applies to your model, but on mine (2019 T-boss 410), the starter meshes with a big gear that is a one way clutch sort of thing. That big gear will turn freely one way, the other way is what starts the engine. If you can get a finger or a screwdriver in there and push on the gear both ways. If it moves only one way, the clutch is good (at least I think it is). Try pushing it both ways. It should lock up in one direction, but freewheel the other way.

Hope this helps.

[Alex]

@Dave N. I shorted the topic title a bit.

[doncaron]

On 1/27/2024 at 7:10 PM, Dave N. said:

2020 Massimo Buck 400 - Won't start. Can hear the starter spinning, but motor never turns. Relay? Starter? Worked fine one day and not the next. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Hey Dave 

I had that issue with mine, I brought it in for warranty and it was a one way bearing on the starter drive. That’s what they told me. Hope it helps. 

[KentC]

In a regular car, this would be diagnosed as a malfunctioning Bendix gear.  I assume this starter is the same. First, always make sure you have a fully charged battery before assuming this is the problem. The bendix gear is on the front of the starter and when the starter starts running,, centrifugal force makes the gear go forward and the starter then engages a large gear on the motor.   The motor then turns and starts. So it sounds as the starter is running, but the bendix is not being activated. 

[T-boss 410]

32 minutes ago, KentC said:

In a regular car, this would be diagnosed as a malfunctioning Bendix gear.  I assume this starter is the same. First, always make sure you have a fully charged battery before assuming this is the problem. The bendix gear is on the front of the starter and when the starter starts running,, centrifugal force makes the gear go forward and the starter then engages a large gear on the motor.   The motor then turns and starts. So it sounds as the starter is running, but the bendix is not being activated. 

The starter in my Massimo T-boss has no Bendix drive. The starter gear stays meshed with the crank gear. There's a one way clutch of sorts on the crank gear. The starter switch engages the starter which will spin the crank gear only one way due to the clutch. The crank gear will freewheel in the opposite direction. Sorta hard to understand (at least for me). Even my riding mower has a Bendix drive.

I don't know if any other UTV manufacturers make theirs the same way.

[KentC]

Really weird. Glad you are aware of this peculiarity. 

[T-boss 410]

1 hour ago, KentC said:

Really weird. Glad you are aware of this peculiarity. 

Yeah, found out while I was trying to hunt down a starting issue with mine. Not sure why they designed it that way, but it's Chinese design, so who knows? You would think that the starter would fail quickly when it's spinning with the engine.

[Dave N.]

Thank all of you for your comments. Hoping to dig into it today. So, was this fixed by replacing the starter motor? Thanks again!

[Dave N.]

So, I pulled the starter off and went through the motion of starting the Buck. The gear coming out of the starter turns and seems fine. Stuck my finger through the hole and tried to move the gear that the starter meshes to, but it did not seem to turn. Put the starter back in and everything is the same. Is this an electrical driven clutch or mechanical? How hard is it to take apart? Would like to fix myself, but maybe should take it to a shop????   (That is, if I can find a shop to work on it). Thanks again for all of your comments.

[T-boss 410]

The gear marked #3 in the diagram should turn freely in one direction, but not in the other direction. If it won't turn in either direction, you've found the problem. There's a one way clutch or bearing that will allow the gear #3 to spin freely in one direction, but the opposite direction is what starts the engine. The starter gear stays meshed with gear #3.

Does the starter spin at all? It may be spinning in the wrong direction. Ask me how I know 😡.

If you can get something into the hole that houses the gear #3 besides your finger, such as a screwdriver, try to spin that gear using that. If you still can't get the gear to spin in either direction, you'll most likely have to replace the one way bearing.

[Dave N.]

So, from your comments above, this is what I have found so far:

The gear marked #3 in the diagram should turn freely in one direction, but not in the other direction. If it won't turn in either direction, you've found the problem. There's a one way clutch or bearing that will allow the gear #3 to spin freely in one direction, but the opposite direction is what starts the engine. The starter gear stays meshed with gear #3. - So, I cannot see the gear #3 as the hole is only a little bigger than my thumb and that's where the gear on the starter motor goes in. The gear labelled #7 (Idler Gear) will turn in both directions if I put a screwdriver through the hole and turn it. 

Does the starter spin at all? It may be spinning in the wrong direction. Ask me how I know 😡. Yes, with the starter motor removed from the gear box, the gear moves in both directions by hand, and when energized by the keyswitch, moves what appears to be clockwise when looking into the end of it.  So, how do you know if it is spinning the wrong direction?

If you can get something into the hole that houses the gear #3 besides your finger, such as a screwdriver, try to spin that gear using that. If you still can't get the gear to spin in either direction, you'll most likely have to replace the one way bearing. The gear labelled #7 (Idler Gear) will turn in both directions if I put a screwdriver through the hole and turn it. 

• Thoughts on the issue?
• How big of job is it to take things apart to see/replace the gears and/or the clutch?
• Should I take it in somewhere to be fixed? (That is, if I can find anyone to work on it!!) 😠

Again, I truly thank you for your guidance here. Much appreciated.

[doncaron]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:42 PM, doncaron said:

Hey Dave 

I had that issue with mine, I brought it in for warranty and it was a one way bearing on the starter drive. That’s what they told me. Hope it helps. 

Hey Dave 

when they fixed mine they only changed the bearing or clutch. 
something else to watch for with these bikes is the timing. The tensioner seems to not work properly. I don’t have a permanent fix yet, but the I’ve got it down to about 1hr to do it now and I keep all the tools in the bike just in case it happens in the bush. 

[T-boss 410]

2 hours ago, Dave N. said:

So, from your comments above, this is what I have found so far:

The gear marked #3 in the diagram should turn freely in one direction, but not in the other direction. If it won't turn in either direction, you've found the problem. There's a one way clutch or bearing that will allow the gear #3 to spin freely in one direction, but the opposite direction is what starts the engine. The starter gear stays meshed with gear #3. - So, I cannot see the gear #3 as the hole is only a little bigger than my thumb and that's where the gear on the starter motor goes in. The gear labelled #7 (Idler Gear) will turn in both directions if I put a screwdriver through the hole and turn it. 

Does the starter spin at all? It may be spinning in the wrong direction. Ask me how I know 😡. Yes, with the starter motor removed from the gear box, the gear moves in both directions by hand, and when energized by the keyswitch, moves what appears to be clockwise when looking into the end of it.  So, how do you know if it is spinning the wrong direction?

If you can get something into the hole that houses the gear #3 besides your finger, such as a screwdriver, try to spin that gear using that. If you still can't get the gear to spin in either direction, you'll most likely have to replace the one way bearing. The gear labelled #7 (Idler Gear) will turn in both directions if I put a screwdriver through the hole and turn it. 

• Thoughts on the issue?
• How big of job is it to take things apart to see/replace the gears and/or the clutch?
• Should I take it in somewhere to be fixed? (That is, if I can find anyone to work on it!!) 😠

Again, I truly thank you for your guidance here. Much appreciated.

I checked the parts diagram for my T-boss, and the parts are the same, just numbered differently. Assuming that the starter meshes with the idler gear, which meshes with the crank gear, you should only be able to spin the idler gear one way.

If I am correct in my assumption, your starter clutch (#2) is bad. I don't know the level of difficulty in replacing the starter clutch, so I can't help you there.

[doncaron]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:14 PM, T-boss 410 said:

I checked the parts diagram for my T-boss, and the parts are the same, just numbered differently. Assuming that the starter meshes with the idler gear, which meshes with the crank gear, you should only be able to spin the idler gear one way.

If I am correct in my assumption, your starter clutch (#2) is bad. I don't know the level of difficulty in replacing the starter clutch, so I can't help you there.

I believe that you are correct. And the starter is not hard but for the gearbox it might be different. But with some mechanical knowledge and this forum I’m confident that it shouldn’t be too bad. I suggest that you take pictures before you start taking it apart it helps. Lol 

good luck and let me know how it goes  

 

[Jon Michel]

Same problem with mine. Ended up being starter clutch.  Did mine in frame. Had to remove a few things but not too bad of job.  Pulley puller is ideal.  Got clutch on ebay $27.  Look for :   Starter Clutch component 23706 For Linhai 260 300 400 ATV UTV Scooter BigHorn

[Dave N.]

So, sorry, I forgot to come back and post. The problem wound up being the starter clutch. Got it replaced and running fine. This is the 2nd starter clutch since I've owned it. Only 60 miles on it. Probably going to sell it. Thank you ALL for your guidance!!!