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2scoops

Viable 4x4 fix?

22 posts in this topic

Ok, so I built a manual 4x4 shifter for my Moab trip. Worked great in the garage when on jacks. Engaged/disengaged, spun the wheels, engaged/disengaged. Then, I got out in the dirt and it wasn't reliable. It just didn't want to in & out of 4x4. So, as I have read in some posts, a few members pointed the original problem with the 4x4 as being the electric actuator--which is a POS. I could hear my electric actuator constantly trying to engage & disengage--to the point of the motor burning up. I believe some pointed to the internal limiting switch. So, I thought a manual mechanism would fix my issue. Now my issue seems to be the internal workings (I have never had my front diff apart) of the front to be the issue. It seems to be real finicky about being precisely aligned when there is any kind of load on the diff.

I know others have built manual 4x4 mechanisms. Has anyone experienced similar issues? Is there a trick to get it to reliably go into 4x4 or does it slide in nice & easy?

Lastly, once I figure out if it is just MY front diff being the issue, I have been playing around with the ideas of an air actuated front 4x4. I am thinking of installing a powertank under the hood anyway and I stumbled across this:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/22/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/132/Default.aspx

Or electric:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/32/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/236/Default.aspx

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Ok, so I built a manual 4x4 shifter for my Moab trip. Worked great in the garage when on jacks. Engaged/disengaged, spun the wheels, engaged/disengaged. Then, I got out in the dirt and it wasn't reliable. It just didn't want to in & out of 4x4. So, as I have read in some posts, a few members pointed the original problem with the 4x4 as being the electric actuator--which is a POS. I could hear my electric actuator constantly trying to engage & disengage--to the point of the motor burning up. I believe some pointed to the internal limiting switch. So, I thought a manual mechanism would fix my issue. Now my issue seems to be the internal workings (I have never had my front diff apart) of the front to be the issue. It seems to be real finicky about being precisely aligned when there is any kind of load on the diff.

I know others have built manual 4x4 mechanisms. Has anyone experienced similar issues? Is there a trick to get it to reliably go into 4x4 or does it slide in nice & easy?

Lastly, once I figure out if it is just MY front diff being the issue, I have been playing around with the ideas of an air actuated front 4x4. I am thinking of installing a powertank under the hood anyway and I stumbled across this:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/22/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/132/Default.aspx

Or electric:

http://www.ox-usa.com/ox/OnlineStore/tabid/438/CategoryID/32/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/236/Default.aspx

Mine already had the manual lever when i purchased it.Looks like they installed it after arriving here for assembly cause where the mechanism was installed next to the diff locker levers area where they welded it on was not painted.I have heard of people having problems with their electric actuator and thought about the door lock actuators on cars.I installed some on a vehicle of mine some time ago and if i remember they seemed like they would be powerfull enough and cheap.

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2419922310104282158hITaOO_th.jpg I didn't get any photos after I fixed it, bummer.

here's the first of several, zoom in on photos and you see the corrosion from water inside the case, I fixed mine, painted my motor because it had corrosion, and put it back together and sealed it real good and I'm still running it, In my opinion, if it was available for the lockers, I would use it there also. -- I like it being electrical!!

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Mine already had the manual lever when i purchased it.Looks like they installed it after arriving here for assembly cause where the mechanism was installed next to the diff locker levers area where they welded it on was not painted.I have heard of people having problems with their electric actuator and thought about the door lock actuators on cars.I installed some on a vehicle of mine some time ago and if i remember they seemed like they would be powerfull enough and cheap.

So no issues with your manual 4x4 going in & out? No delays?

I am trying to figure out if I should tear my front diff down and take a look as to why it is so finicky.

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So no issues with your manual 4x4 going in & out? No delays?

I am trying to figure out if I should tear my front diff down and take a look as to why it is so finicky.

no issues at all.Is it possible yours isnt giving it enough travel or maybe too much??

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2419922310104282158hITaOO_th.jpg I didn't get any photos after I fixed it, bummer.

here's the first of several, zoom in on photos and you see the corrosion from water inside the case, I fixed mine, painted my motor because it had corrosion, and put it back together and sealed it real good and I'm still running it, In my opinion, if it was available for the lockers, I would use it there also. -- I like it being electrical!!

Yeah, mine was a brand new box when I bought the trooper. The previous owner I believed replaced it cause he didn't think anyone would buy it without the 4x4 working. It worked OK when I first got it, but it was still intermittent/finicky. But then after a while I could hear the motor constantly trying to engage/disengage--then it finally burnt out. Being in 4x4 the entire Moab trip was a real fun killer. I couldn't whip the tail end around and powerslide.

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Yeah, mine was a brand new box when I bought the trooper. The previous owner I believed replaced it cause he didn't think anyone would buy it without the 4x4 working. It worked OK when I first got it, but it was still intermittent/finicky. But then after a while I could hear the motor constantly trying to engage/disengage--then it finally burnt out. Being in 4x4 the entire Moab trip was a real fun killer. I couldn't whip the tail end around and powerslide.

I checked mine tonight and when i engage the 4x4 and lever is locked travel on diff plunger goes about 1/2" out.

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If I remember correctly (getting old) the 4x4 engagement device inside the diff is the same as the diff locking devises. It uses a collar with teeth on it's inside that slides over two gears that are side by side. One gear is attached to the drive shaft side and the other is attached to the diff. The collar sets over one of the gears when not engaged. This collar then slides half way onto the second gear thus locking the two gears together to engage the front diff. If the ring slides to far, it can slide all the way onto the second gear and then the two gears are not tied together again. This collar wants to go half way onto each gear. The collar is about 1/2" long so it wants to be 1/4" onto each gear. So find the point that the collar just starts to engage and then adjust things so that is is 1/4" farther when engaged and just before that point when not engaged.

Lenny

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Thanks Rick, thanks Lenny.

It seems to me I may be having an alignment issue. Maybe there is some damage in there. Without having an owners manual in front of me, is our 4x4 system designed to be engaged on the fly? What instructions does it give on engaging the 4x4 system?

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Thanks Rick, thanks Lenny.

It seems to me I may be having an alignment issue. Maybe there is some damage in there. Without having an owners manual in front of me, is our 4x4 system designed to be engaged on the fly? What instructions does it give on engaging the 4x4 system?

WARNING

The vehicle can be destroyed if you ignore the following:

ALWAYS FULLY STOP THE VEHICLE BEFORE CHANGING BETWEEN 2WD AND 4WD.

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WARNING

The vehicle can be destroyed if you ignore the following:

ALWAYS FULLY STOP THE VEHICLE BEFORE CHANGING BETWEEN 2WD AND 4WD.

The same goes for locking the differentials.

Lenny

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I second that, Stop to engage and stop to switch in or out and then back up a foot or 3 and then proceed, this allow for any binding to be relieved.

Kinarfi

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Agree with everyone including how Lenny says the locking works. I have a diff apart and I will try to post pics & measurements.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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WARNING

The vehicle can be destroyed if you ignore the following:

ALWAYS FULLY STOP THE VEHICLE BEFORE CHANGING BETWEEN 2WD AND 4WD.

Bad news guys. I was rolling foward at about 3mph and tried to engage the 4x4. Luckily, I was wearing my fire retardant suit and a helmet--the trooper blew up and is now completely destroyed! :o

Gotta love the Chinese interpretation.

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Agree with everyone including how Lenny says the locking works. I have a diff apart and I will try to post pics & measurements.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

That would help alot--thanks.

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Bad news guys. I was rolling foward at about 3mph and tried to engage the 4x4. Luckily, I was wearing my fire retardant suit and a helmet--the trooper blew up and is now completely destroyed! :o

Gotta love the Chinese interpretation.

I suppose you are now responding by floating above your computer typing with one hand, a harp in the other and a halo over your head(LOL).

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2scoops, are talking about the diff? The diff blew up! Front or rear?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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2scoops, are talking about the diff? The diff blew up! Front or rear?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Rocmoc, are you skipping posts again? I was being facetious in response to the Joyner owners manual warning. I am guilty of messing with the 4x4 while the vehicle is moving. Usually due to the fact that I was trying to get it to engage cause it wouldn't at a standstill. Never had anything bad come out of it, especially to the extent of the "vehicle being destroyed".

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How did you know. Yes I have been know to skip a post or more, LOL! Lenny & I both share the same bucket of ADHD. For real!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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How did you know. Yes I have been know to skip a post or more, LOL! Lenny & I both share the same bucket of ADHD. For real!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Thats funny. I was looking at it the same way you did. Must be the same bucket.

Lenny

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In my experience, the constant engaging and disengauging is the switch it's self when bouncing makes momentary contact. The switches are bad bad bad in the joyners.

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Thats funny. I was looking at it the same way you did. Must be the same bucket.

Lenny

That is really sad when i caught on and you and rocmoc didnt.(lol) wheres the dinosaur???

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