alternator dead

[stevozz]

Hi everyone its been awhile, everybody enjoying their troopers? Did anybody have to replace any alternators yet? mine is dead !!! does anybody know if there is an aftermarket one out there? instead of going to joyner? I checked NAPA they have nothing, checker also has nothing. Thanks for your help!!!

Stevozz

[Guest Lenny]

An alternator is an alternator. I beleive that they require a 12v keyed line going to them to energize the coils and they then put out 12 volts to the battery. Any alternator that will bolt up should work fine as long as it puts out equivalant or more amperage. Maybe Kinarfi can tell us what amperage the stock alternator is. More amperage won't hurt with in reason of course, just don't use less.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Yes this topic has been on here before. Do a search and I am sure the info will come up.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[stevozz]

Hi guys and thank you for your replies. The stock alternator puts out 75 amps, everything that NAPA found that may fit are only putting out 45 to 50 amps so that will not work. I did take it to get bench checked and it is dead not producing any amps. They cannot even replace any parts, because they cannot locate the parts. And a new one from jmc cost $275.00.

I did read something on here the other night where someone thought it was their alternator but instead it was the shut off switch. Boy do I wish it was that. I just hate to buy another China alternator and it does the same thing 800 miles from now. I was just wondering if anybody had this problem and found another alternator to take the place of the factory one. Thanks for your help guys.

Stevozz

[Kinarfi]

I've torn a few alternators apart and they are very simple, the copper winding, the rotor and some electronics to control the voltage. I bet that if the stator and the rotor and not burned up, it wouldn't be that hard to adapt the controller of a chevy or similar to make work again. If you want, I'll give it a shot for you.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Stevozz, if you aren't going to run a ton of lights you don't need 75 amps. As Lenny said, if it will bolt up it will work.

rocmoc n AZ

[dirtydog]

I have a used alt from my 08 T4. Thought alt bearings were bad. Turns out it was the belt. Replaced with new one I found here in Phx from guy who bought Joyner stock when they went out of business. If interested, we could meet somewhere, you could try it out and I would refund purchase price if not satisfied. PM offline to discuss.

[Guest Lenny]

Before I would spend the big bucks on another Joyner one, I would adapt a more standard one to fit. Can't be that hard. Just make an adapter that bolts into the regular mounting point on the engine then extends out a bit where it changes to fit the new alternator. You have to make it so that when it is bolted to the engine that it can't rotate. I would think about a tab sticking up and sdown from the mount points and use some long set screws so after installation to the engine, the set screws can tighten against the block to stabilize it.The strip with the slot for adjusting belt tension can also be easily modified. You may have to get a slightly longer belt. Then the problem is solved for once and for all.

Lenny

[stevozz]

Hi everyone, thanks again for your help. the part that is bad is the regulator/ stator its the part that sends the amps out. And they cannot find the part to replace it. They are still looking for it. As for lights all I have is the factory spot lights on top and 2 sets of 520 PIAA lights, I removed the headlights. The biggest draw is from the factory spot lights, Yes I think I will have to see how much room I have to make another one fit. Whats the lowest amp alt you think that I can use? Because when you get up to 75+ amps they are alot bigger. Thanks for all your help and info guys. I will let you know how everything turns out.

Thanks again

Stevozz

[rocmoc]

Before I would spend the big bucks on another Joyner one, I would adapt a more standard one to fit. Can't be that hard. Just make an adapter that bolts into the regular mounting point on the engine then extends out a bit where it changes to fit the new alternator. You have to make it so that when it is bolted to the engine that it can't rotate. I would think about a tab sticking up and sdown from the mount points and use some long set screws so after installation to the engine, the set screws can tighten against the block to stabilize it.The strip with the slot for adjusting belt tension can also be easily modified. You may have to get a slightly longer belt. Then the problem is solved for once and for all.

Lenny

Sounds like another aftermarket item for you to whip up for us. You could even pickout a std alt for us to use.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[stevozz]

what do you guys think the lowest amp alt I could use that will handle everything? because its true my trooper doesnt have a/c, heater, power windows, locks ect. again stock is 75 amps. What do these really need to run the system? Again for lights I have the stock spotlights on the top light bar, and 2 sets of 520 PIAA lights.

Thanks again for your help!

Stevozz

[Kinarfi]

35 to 50 would be my guess, you have the fuel pump and the fan, that's maybe 10 to 15 amps, head lights, another 10 amps, brake lights, 6, over heads12.

[stevozz]

Thanks for getting back to me. I took my alt to a friend of mine Thursday afternoon, He is going to get 2 of them tomorrow morning to see if they will work, both of them are for dodge vehicles, and both are pushing out 55 amps also with the same plug. if they do not work we are going to try Suzuki which from what I hear will bolt right up and also pushing out 55 amps, but the plug is different. So if I have to go that route all I have to do is splice the wires going into the alt. I will let you guys know what happens. Again thank you guys for everything!!!

Stevozz

[stevozz]

Hi guys, We found one alt that looks like it will mount up with ez, one problem stock alts have only 2 wires going to it. This one is for a Suzuki sidekick and it has 3 wires. I am really no good at wiring and worried about what wire goes where. I do not want to cause other problems to the system. I tried 4 other alt with 2 wires but they were to big and alittle long pulley wise it didnt line up. They do not give you much room to work with and the way the bottom mount is. And the left motor mount is real close to the bottom alt mount. Mid 90s Suzuki samurai was small and looked like it would bolt right up except for the 3 wires and the pulley was for a v-belt and wouldnt change over because of shaft size. And the Sidekick was about the same size as the stock trooper alt with surp belt, all you would have to do is shim up bottom bolt for extra room for the mount, but again 3 wires! both pushed out 55 amps. Does anybody know how I would hook up a 2 wire system to a 3 wire alt??? Again thanks for all your help!!! If this doesnt work I will just have to get that $275.00 peice of #### China pride.

Thanks Stevozz

[Kinarfi]

Hi Trooper Folk!

Steve sent his dead alternator to me and I've been doing so studies of alternators and found that the voltage regulator in them has become an elaborate complicated work of art. Used to be a relay that open when the battery voltage went about 14.2 and closed when the voltage went below 14.1 (+ or -), now it looks at every little sine wave coming out of the windings and reacts to that, plus the temperature of the battery and the amount of current being drawn and the speed of the rotor and who know what else. I read that MAN tends to complicate even the most simple thing, I happen to agree with that.

Any way, as i opened up the alternator, I found the three diodes that feed the regulator were fried, shorted, thus shorting out the stator, which may have over loaded the regulator until it fried also. Now I'm going to, 1 build an analog version so when the voltage is under 14.2, it sends more to the rotor and when the voltage is more than 14.2, it sends less. plus I ordered some sample alternator voltage regulator chips from ONsemi, the samples are free, but the shipping and handling is $11.00.

I took photos, doctored some of them and put them in the Trooper web shot

After I looked at some of the photos, I decided I better go clean up my bench

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Disassembled the regulator and cleaned it all up, now I'm waiting for some parts to put back in and then I'll seal it up and put it on my rig and see what happens.

Started new thread, http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2577-alternator-regulator-replacement/page__view__findpost__p__13642

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Stevoz,

What did you finally do?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

I am adding this info from Silverbullet,

http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2019-alternator/

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico