Trooper Dies

[Shortedout96]

I have a 09 trooper... Last night it died on me and would start right back up, would run 20 ft and die, start right back up and then die again.. Did that for about a half mile till I got to my trailer i stopped and it would idle any ideas what it could be... I am going to change the fuel filter this week... Any body have a fuel filter part number from a auto parts store that will fit?

Thank You

Adam

[bruhaw]

G4777 - Fram. See pinned topics under parts and pieces for part mumbers for a number of different parts. That topic and past problems are both good to read through.

[Tinman]

I'd start with the fuel pump. Too bad the fuel pressure gauge is in the back - I'm changing mine to where I can see it tomorrow.

[Shortedout96]

I cut my catalytic converter off so the O2 sensors are no longer on it... Could that be why it dies

[bigdan120]

Cutting the 02s off prob cause it not to run right.I don't think it would not start and run then stall. And like Bruhaw said read up on all post if you can there is a lot of help in here...

[Tinman]

Def need the O2 sensors. Without them your ECM is blind. Another thread mentions serious issues when they were disconnected.

[nocturnalsixer]

Agreed the first o2 sensor is a must so computer can adjust your fueling with the sensor. I have ran my trooper without the second o2 sensor it seem fine without that. Second sensor is usually to confirm that the first one is working and to fine tune it.

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[Kinarfi]

Just by chance, when I went to start my Trooper up for the first time after fixing the tranny, it wouldn't start, so I left it alone and figured to work on that problem later, in the interim, I noticed the 2nd O2 was unplugged, so I plugged it in the tried to start it, lit right up and I didn't have to touch the throttle. Didn't pursue the issue any further. just 2 cents or is it scents?

[Guest Lenny]

I didn't have the time to get into the articles but I googled 'o2 sensor bypass' and found a lot of articles on how to do it properly. Actually this is more in Kinarfis area of expertise so maybe he will research it and get back to us on his thoughts.

Lenny

[charlie]

I dont have my 02s plugged in but I have the fuel programer from silver bullets, I run it on stage one and Id say all in all its fine havnt had issues. I have uridem plugs in it and a snorkle

[Tinman]

I'mcurious Charlie - how does the fuek programmer know the right mixture at diff rpms without the O2 sensor?

[nocturnalsixer]

Yeah I'm curious about how those run without o2, i believe because fueling metering was already set up in the controller and its supposed to make engine run richer to make more hp right?

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[charlie]

Nocturnalsixer

your right the fuel programmer works with the ecm and the engine and pending the setting you have adds or suptracts fuel theres 8 stages on it and I was recomended to run it at stage 1 cause I dont have any mods other than plugs and a snorkle. I was also told by silver bullets Jose and rick that you want an air fuel ratio of about 14 wich I dont have one of those yet so I keep it at 1 to be safe!! I have had it on there for mounths now atleast done atleast 150 miles with it only draw back is exhaust smells little more at idle but its an offroad vehicle and lets be honest all exhaust smells to some point. As far as HP ya its suppose to increase it and the torque I forget what the numbers are. I didnt really notice say a hp increase but when I first installed it I felt like the throttle was way more responsive. I plan on getting the air fuel gauge after I dile in the suspension

[nocturnalsixer]

Nocturnalsixer

your right the fuel programmer works with the ecm and the engine and pending the setting you have adds or suptracts fuel theres 8 stages on it and I was recomended to run it at stage 1 cause I dont have any mods other than plugs and a snorkle. I was also told by silver bullets Jose and rick that you want an air fuel ratio of about 14 wich I dont have one of those yet so I keep it at 1 to be safe!! I have had it on there for mounths now atleast done atleast 150 miles with it only draw back is exhaust smells little more at idle but its an offroad vehicle and lets be honest all exhaust smells to some point. As far as HP ya its suppose to increase it and the torque I forget what the numbers are. I didnt really notice say a hp increase but when I first installed it I felt like the throttle was way more responsive. I plan on getting the air fuel gauge after I dile in the suspension

Interesting, the smell is supposed to be the rich unburnt fuel i think.

I think ill better get a site/fuel gauge to add to my fuel controller and other stuff that i want to buy from sb if i feel sb is doing a . Good job and if my other stuff from him finally arrives lol.

Anyways

From what i understand. 14:1 ratio is best for emissions any leaner than that and you risk detonation and that performance is best at. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS but i believe that most performance is at 10:1-12:1

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[Tinman]

This is soooo different from my motorcycles. The Power Commander I'd install used the factory 02 sensor to fine tune the mixture and leave a history you could look at with a laptop. Anything else was guessing. There were flat spots in all my bikes, and I could only smooth out the power curve by knowing if it was cus of too much gas or too little. With a small flat spot and a huge RPM range, plugs wouldn't tell me - I could only tell by my laptop.

[charlie]

It is different froma motorcycle I can understand what you are saying been there dont that. My air fuel ratio is about 14.1 set at the one setting this being said from the directions and jose and rick from SB. Like isaid it runs fine no issues and I like it once i get my gauge I will play with it more. I guess maybe the smell I smell is a little rich I do run high test and problally some dirt burning or wd 40 I spray the thing down with wd before I go out make clean up a lot easier

[nocturnalsixer]

It is different froma motorcycle I can understand what you are saying been there dont that. My air fuel ratio is about 14.1 set at the one setting this being said from the directions and jose and rick from SB. Like isaid it runs fine no issues and I like it once i get my gauge I will play with it more. I guess maybe the smell I smell is a little rich I do run high test and problally some dirt burning or wd 40 I spray the thing down with wd before I go out make clean up a lot easier

Lol just keep wd40 off rubber it degrades the rubber i learned the hard way but otherwise i just leave mud on it gives character and seem to impress the people even more too

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[Guest Lenny]

Interesting, the smell is supposed to be the rich unburnt fuel i think.

I think ill better get a site/fuel gauge to add to my fuel controller and other stuff that i want to buy from sb if i feel sb is doing a . Good job and if my other stuff from him finally arrives lol.

Anyways

From what i understand. 14:1 ratio is best for emissions any leaner than that and you risk detonation and that performance is best at. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS but i believe that most performance is at 10:1-12:1

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That is right about the 10:1 to 12:1 ratio for best power. I run in that range whenever my throttle is being pushed down. It backs off when I'm crusing. You arn't going to hurt anything by running it too rich unless it's extream then you will foul plugs. I would try the next few settings up from 1 and see if any of them provides more power. 14:1 isn't going to make it much different from stock other then stock is probably more about 15:1 to 15-1/2 :1 which is for least emmisions and fine if your not working the engine real hard. Oxygen/fuel ratio can make a big difference on power. I find it effects torque a lot. At 14:1 and say 800 to 1000 rpms, my Trooper doesn't want to pull real hard and will easily kill if I'm trying to lug it up a steep hill is 1st or 2nd. At 10:1, it feels like a tractor where you can actually feel the hit of each cylinder. It just plain lugs down real good at that ratio. Having an air fuel gauge is the only way you know what you have. However a narrow band sensor, which the Trooper has, only tells the computer rather the mixture is rich or lean but not by how much. I've have switched to a wide band sensor which not only tells you rather it is rich or lean but by how much. In other words it will tell me if it's 10.2:1 or 10:3:1 rather then just indicate it is just plus or minus which doesn't help much. Its fine for the computer which follows a table and looks to see if the ratio is too high or too low and then makes small adjustments until it matches the table. Unless you can change the table which you can't on the stock Trooper ECM, you can only fool the computer to get it to make it run rich by either replacing the table or altering what the computer sees from the sensors.

Lenny

[nocturnalsixer]

That is right about the 10:1 to 12:1 ratio for best power. I run in that range whenever my throttle is being pushed down. It backs off when I'm crusing. You arn't going to hurt anything by running it too rich unless it's extream then you will foul plugs. I would try the next few settings up from 1 and see if any of them provides more power. 14:1 isn't going to make it much different from stock other then stock is probably more about 15:1 to 15-1/2 :1 which is for least emmisions and fine if your not working the engine real hard. Oxygen/fuel ratio can make a big difference on power. I find it effects torque a lot. At 14:1 and say 800 to 1000 rpms, my Trooper doesn't want to pull real hard and will easily kill if I'm trying to lug it up a steep hill is 1st or 2nd. At 10:1, it feels like a tractor where you can actually feel the hit of each cylinder. It just plain lugs down real good at that ratio. Having an air fuel gauge is the only way you know what you have. However a narrow band sensor, which the Trooper has, only tells the computer rather the mixture is rich or lean but not by how much. I've have switched to a wide band sensor which not only tells you rather it is rich or lean but by how much. In other words it will tell me if it's 10.2:1 or 10:3:1 rather then just indicate it is just plus or minus which doesn't help much. Its fine for the computer which follows a table and looks to see if the ratio is too high or too low and then makes small adjustments until it matches the table. Unless you can change the table which you can't on the stock Trooper ECM, you can only fool the computer to get it to make it run rich by either replacing the table or altering what the computer sees from the sensors.

Lenny

That's also exactly right what u said about wide band oxygen sensor, if you try to tune a engine with narrow band o2 sensor it will turn in a nightmare but with wide band oxygen sensor its like a walk in the park to see where you are at and to adjust accordingly.

But i wonder about connection how would we able to replace our narrow band o2 with a wide band one and plug it in or did you leave your factory in and added another o2 sensor for gauge itself only?

I know you got the megasquirt system so I'm sure you have one o2 wide band in place of first stock sensor correct?

If i could i think id set it up to be at near 10:1 at wide open throttle and at 14-15:1 at idle and part throttle low load to keep mpg up

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[Guest Lenny]

That's also exactly right what u said about wide band oxygen sensor, if you try to tune a engine with narrow band o2 sensor it will turn in a nightmare but with wide band oxygen sensor its like a walk in the park to see where you are at and to adjust accordingly.

But i wonder about connection how would we able to replace our narrow band o2 with a wide band one and plug it in or did you leave your factory in and added another o2 sensor for gauge itself only?

I know you got the megasquirt system so I'm sure you have one o2 wide band in place of first stock sensor correct?

If i could i think id set it up to be at near 10:1 at wide open throttle and at 14-15:1 at idle and part throttle low load to keep mpg up

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Yes I only have one wide band sensor which feeds the computer and the gauge. With out going back and rechecking, I beleive that the computer sends the o2 sensor a 5 volt signal and the sensor sends back a voltage which is difference if it's high or low. That being the case I don't see any reason that a wide band sensor wouldn't work just fine with the ECM. The ECM just looks to see if the voltage is higher or lower and it doesn't care about how much, just the condition.

Ceck here http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/wideband-o2-systems-c-23.html?osCsid=44b33463913dcb1ab6051c1a36dcc45f

These are the people I delt with on my Megasquirt stuff and o2 sensor. The best and most knowledgable out there. Go to theier home page and any techincal information is in online manuals from Megasquirt. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/index.php

Lenny

[Tinman]

Yeah, I get kids, dads and moms laughing and smiling when they see me and my mud machine.

[Shortedout96]

So I do have the first O2 sensor that was before the cat, the second one behind the cat is not on it anymore so i guess i will try a new fuel pump...

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[Tinman]

A new fuel pump? Have you checked the fuel pressure? It should be running near 60 psi

[Shortedout96]

Checked fuel pressure today was at about 45-50lbs... Adjusted the regulator up to 60, drove around about 20 mins thn it tried to die didnt make it back to fuel pressure gauge in time to check it before it idled back up... Changed plugs and air filter today

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[Tinman]

That's why I put a gauge up front, where I can see it.

[nocturnalsixer]

That's why I put a gauge up front, where I can see it.

Ill have to do that its nice to be able to monitor everything at whim

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[Kinarfi]

When I added my surge tank, I moved the fuel pump up next to the filter and also moved the pressure regulator, I also opened the gauge of the regulator and cleaned the dust out and then sealed it when I put it back together.

[bigdan120]

Ok I give... Whats the surge tank for and what does it fix?...I know its gas related but for?

[bigdan120]

And I thought fuel pressure was supposed to be around 35....

[nocturnalsixer]

When I added my surge tank, I moved the fuel pump up next to the filter and also moved the pressure regulator, I also opened the gauge of the regulator and cleaned the dust out and then sealed it when I put it back together.

Correct me if I'm wrong, surge tank is for dampening the fuel pump pulse to smooth out the delivery of the fuel?

Also i believe engine will run at 30 psi but 60 psi is for helping push fuel through nozzle to better atomize the fuel into smaller particles to Burn more efficiently

Set me straight if I'm wrong

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