Sector E1 Conversion to Lithium Batteries

[Gorj]

After much thought and reading I have finally removed the very heavy Discover lead acid batteries and replaced them with much lighter Humsienk Lithium batteries. The process took most of the day with a lunch break and a few other breaks. I rigged up a winch in rear and ran the cable over a pulley mounted over the batteries. Made the removal of the 65 pound batteries much easier for this 80 year old! Installed the four lithium batteries inboard to be able to use the existing cables. Used heavy duty rubber bungee as tie downs. Connected all the cables and fired it up and took it out for a test drive. Wow, what a difference. More power than when new. Climbed the hills on my place with ease. Should have done this sooner. The dash voltage gauge I installed shows 56.1 volts after riding it all over my 20 acres and up hills. You may ask why the four 12 volt and not just one 48 volt battery. For two reasons the 48 volt battery is really heavy and difficult for me to maneuver into place, and secondly, if one of the 12 volt batteries goes out, I only have one battery to replace. But if the 48 volt battery goes bad I will have a much larger expense to replace it.  One thing I noticed, the E1 is about 1.5" to 2" taller! Humsienk has a five year warranty and the batteries generally last ten years.  I will post an update down the road.

[GNFO]

Glad you're happy with them.  There is definitely a huge difference in weight.  Out of curiosity, with them wired in series you're max continuous output would only be 100A, although from what I could see online they can put out up to 300A for a much shorter time (usually measured in seconds, but I couldn't find the detailed specs from them). What are you seeing in practice? Plus I'm guessing 100aH is enough capacity for the way you use your UTV?

I believe those have a bluetooth connection, although they may not coordinate between each other for load balancing. I don't know if that could be an issue long term, but it would probably be a good idea to monitor the individual battery charges separately in the app until you have a good idea.

[Gorj]

According to the printed specs it has 110 amp continuous output. And 2560 Wh. combined. I bought these as a set so BMS in each battery talks to each other. In the manual it warns against using other brands of batteries with these. I am using a smart 48 volt charger. As with anything, time will tell if this was a good move.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GNFO]

Since the four batteries are wired in series, your capacity and output are the same as one battery because they're being used to get the voltage up to 48V. So continuous output will be 110A (with some amount of surge above that for a brief period), and since the Wh of a single battery is 1280Wh (printed on the side of the battery), that means your total capacity is also 1280Wh, or about 107Ah.  

It's that nuance about series vs parallel batteries where the Hisun numbers in their advertising with the Discover cells is just plain wrong.  They list the sum of all 8 batteries as if that's the total capacity, but because they're in series to get the voltage up to 48V, you can't add them up. I was asking about what you noticed on the power because the motor can take up to 400A for max torque, but on paper your batteries have a max continuous of 110A. It's the same deal as the Discover batteries. On paper they can only put out 100A, but can surge higher than that for a limited amount of time.

If you're happy with the performance and range, none of this matters.  I just wanted to make sure you were aware how the numbers add up.

[Gorj]

You are partially correct about the amps. But wattage is amps time volts.  Thus the batteries are putting out 51.2 volts combined and that equals 5120 Wh. 

[mark walkom]

these are the same batteries as what I used!

I am finding its providing the full 400a when I switch to high though?

[mark walkom]

@Gorj what charger are you using?

[Gorj]

ECO WORTHY 48V 18A Lithium Battery Charger 900W Fast Charger

[Tommy2bits]

Have you noticed the ride becoming significantly stiffer? I am buying one that was upgraded to one big Lithium battery and it rides horrible. I plan on loosening the preload on the coilover springs and adjusting the dampening and the release on the shocks and removing the away bar. Beyond that I may need to get some softer shocks since these are set up for 500lbs of batteries. Just wondering your experience and how do you charge your little 12v battery? 

[mark walkom]

I haven't noticed any major difference in that area, no. it's heaps quicker off the mark and consistently zippier, and it does feel lighter to handle, but not rough or stiff

 

the 12v charges off the 48v system somewhere, not sure exactly where it does this (the sevcon maybe?) but you shouldn't need to charge it separately

[Gorj]

I noticed a bit of a harsher ride so I adjust the springs, which lowered it a bit and gave a softer ride. There is a special tool to do that, but I made one in my shop. There is also a screw adjust at the top of the shock to make the ride softer. Turn the screw to the left-counter clockwise.

[Tommy2bits]

Thanks, I have a set of spanner wrenches and will give ti a try. 

[klm]

Wonder if the new Sectors have lithium batteries,and if not, why not?

[Gorj]

I do not know. It would raise the price. The local  dealer only sells the gas Hisun. There is a lawn mower/small tractor dealer in the area that sells a two wheel drive side by side and it has lithium batteries. I do not know the brand but it is light green.

[GNFO]

11 hours ago, klm said:

Wonder if the new Sectors have lithium batteries, and if not, why not?

Hisun makes a 15kW lithium version that has some nice specs, but it's not available in the US and, like the other lithium powered UTVs, is very expensive. I found listings for it in New Zealand where it works out to over $20K US dollars, and in the UK that version goes for over $34K US dollars!  Here in the US, the Polaris Ranger electric UTV starts at $30K. 

Despite the cost of adding lithium batteries to the lead battery version Sector E1 in the US, it's way less than any of those options - even if you put in a full eight 48V Lithium GC2 batteries, which is unnecessary for most users.  In fact, you'd still come out at half the price even if you bought the E1 brand new and immediately replaced the Discover batteries rather than wait for them to wear out like the others on this forum.

You can buy what are essentially glorified golf carts for the same price range, but they aren't even close to the same capability, especially off-road (or off-grass).

[klm]

this makes no sense to me, why would they pass up a big market for a quality SXS EV at a resonable price in the U.S.  

Some company is going to wake up and make a lot of money (I hope)

I thought the Kandi Cowboy was the answer but they seem to have big quality issues.

 

[Gorj]

Lowes has the Kandi listed for $13k, which seems like a real bargain considering its specs. But it is not available!

[GNFO]

48 minutes ago, klm said:

this makes no sense to me, why would they pass up a big market for a quality SXS EV at a resonable price in the U.S.  

Some company is going to wake up and make a lot of money (I hope)

I thought the Kandi Cowboy was the answer but they seem to have big quality issues.

 

Cheapest real off-road work-capable UTVs I've found in the US that come with lithium batteries as original equipment are the Kandi Cowboy e10K starting at $16K and the Landmaster AMP starting at $18K for the 4x4 standard model.

A brand new Hisun E1 starts at $12K with the lead batteries, and that's about the same as the equivalent gas model. If Hisun wanted to, I bet they could match that $16K price with lithium batteries easily.  They've probably made the decision that anything more expensive won't sell in enough numbers to be worth their effort to export (for the US anyway).  I would bet most people don't even think an electric UTV exists to even look for one, so the sales numbers are probably pretty low in the US so far.  And frankly, a big name like Polaris advertising an electric UTV for $30K doesn't help matters.

All that being said, if it weren't for the history and economies of scale behind gas engines, an electric UTV should actually be much cheaper and easier to manufacture than a gas model.  Just like electric cars, it's going to take a while for the supply chain, manufacturing infrastructure, and consumer awareness to build to the point where the economic, convenience, and performance advantages of electric win out.

[Gorj]

One of the issues with Hisun in the US is that they have really poor customer support. My local Hisun dealer does not even keep an EI in stock, and does not even advertise them! As a matter of fact they usually only have one or two of the gas versions. They are primarily a tractor and lawn mower dealer. One has to go to the next town- 25 miles away- to find a real ATV dealer, and they do not stock any electric ATV's. But I am in the middle of bubba country and they buy those big noisy gas monsters!