Starting

[T-boss 410]

It is the same battery, but it's always been hard to start. I got the UTV in an auction. It was a floor model, so it has been started numerous times. But it's definitely not the OEM battery. It reached a point where the battery wouldn't even turn over the engine without a battery charger hooked up. This battery will turn the engine over, but it is marginal at best. I have to keep hitting the key to get it past the compression stroke. Even then it's a slow crank.

[kenfain]

Have you checked that the ground is solidly connected?

Check all the plug connections for solid, tight connections. Including the solenoid, and ignition switch. Check the ignition switch for corrosion, and proper function. 

Really, all this is just making sure that you've covered all possibilities. Because it really sounds like a starter. They can get expensive. Personally, I'd check what I could easily get to. Then I'd pull, and disassemble the starter. Checking the bearings before disassembling. Then the brushes, they can have cracks, and such, long before they wear out. Most starters don't have shims/washers, but if yours does. Make sure you put them back like they came off.

[T-boss 410]

I've checked all the connections and grounds that I could get to. I haven't checked the ignition switch yet. All the connections that I could locate were clean and tight. As soon as I can figure out how to get to the ignition switch, I'll check that. 

[kenfain]

These days most of that stuff is pretty well sealed up. Getting to it could be a chore. 

To further your diagnosis of the problem. You might try lightly tapping on the starter, while it's doing it's slow starting thing. I usually use the wooden handle of the hammer. It needs to be a sharp rap, not a padded, soft tap, like with a dead blow, or one of those plastic hammer  handles. But hitting it with the hammer head, or hitting it too hard can damage it. So be careful. 

Like I said, I really believe that this is going to be the problem. 

[Travis]

Have you tried jumping the wiring with jumper cables?

Go from the buggies Battery to the starter, if it starts fine, wiring issue.

If not, bad battery , starter, or wiring issue.

[kenfain]

1 minute ago, Travis said:

Have you tried jumping the wiring with jumper cables?

Go from the buggies Battery to the starter, if it starts fine, wiring issue.

If not, bad battery , starter, or wiring issue.

Every time I've ever tried that. It seems like all I get is lots of sparks, and aggravation lol. But yeah, if you can get to it. That's an excellent idea!

[T-boss 410]

I just hooked up a good 750cca battery with jumper cables to the buggy battery, and it did the same thing. Wouldn't crank over until I hit the key a few times. What does that sound like?

[kenfain]

I've come to believe that the most likely cause of your issue.  Is that the starter has some kind of internal problem. 

[T-boss 410]

I'm leaning that way also. Can the starter be cross referenced with other starters? Not too sure I feel very comfortable with an OEM  starter. 

[kenfain]

Anything is possible. But I really have no idea. 

If it turns out to be the starter. Then just because this one went bad early on. Is no reason to think that the next OEM starter would be faulty. 

I seriously doubt that you'll find anything built more robust than OEM. Most aftermarket starters aren't known for being built well.

I'd pull it apart, and look closely at the brushes, and bearings. Maybe there's a kit available?

[Travis]

Does your starter look like this?

Or is the solenoid piggyback?

[Travis]

https://www.scautosports.com/Massimo-Parts/TB410_STARTING_MOTOR_M

$110, not bad.. you might check with Arrowhead  to see if they have one that will work.

. but one thing i just thought of, you might ought to check Voltage in 2 places, on the battery side of the starter solenoid, and the Starter side of the solenoid, in rare cases, a solenoid can work, but not pass full voltage/amperage through it . i've ran into it twice on a Murray and JD mower.

[T-boss 410]

Well, I had to be a contortionist, but I got the starter off. Put it in a vise and hooked up the car battery. Spun right up. I know you had the same issue with your old one. How did you discover that it was bad?

[T-boss 410]

49 minutes ago, Travis said:

Does your starter look like this?

Or is the solenoid piggyback?

That's what mine looks like. PITA to get to. I can't see how to get to the ignition switch without removing the entire front body. The starter solenoid is behind the battery, facing rearward. Looks like that will require a removal of the front body, also.

[kenfain]

We already know that it works. So if it's not under load, then it's natural for it to spin like there's no problem. 

Check the shaft for side play. There shouldn't be much at all. Then you'll need to gently disassemble it, by loosening the thru bolts. 

Or at this point you can just take it to a starter rebuild shop. They should be able to find the problem pretty fast. Either way, I'd want to be certain that it's definitely the starter at fault though. 

It's extremely unlikely that they'll be able to fix it. Because they won't have the parts. But if they'll confirm that the brushes are bad. Then you might be able to find those somewhere. 

[kenfain]

Just saw your last post. That seems pretty cheap for a starter. Don't think a starter shop would do much with that. I'd probably replace it. 

Then I'd probably find out that it was the solenoid after all lol.

[T-boss 410]

Yeah, I kinda want to rule out the starter solenoid, but it looks like a very detailed job to get to that, as well as the ignition switch.  But if I manage to get to both of them, how do I go about testing them?

[Travis]

as far as the solenoid, just make sure you've got the same voltage on both sides, you ought to be okay..The two times i listed above, i had 12.5 on Batt side, and about 9.8 on the other side.  I don't know how it does it, but it did a new solenoid fixed it.

 

[kenfain]

As to the solenoid, you wouldn't need to test it directly at the solenoid. There's a perfectly good cable already attached to the lugs on either side of the solenoid. Check it on the other ends of the cables. In a no start situation, you might need to access the solenoid directly. But not this time. 

Checking the switch is a bit more involved, but only because there's at least three positions, and usually more. But for your issue, there's no reason to check to make sure the off, or on works. It'd be more about resistance, and checking for corrosion. Sometimes corrosion happens internally, like when you wash it, and get water in the keyhole. Over time, this can cause problems. 

Checking it is a very simple procedure. You just test each position, one at a time. Unfortunately this is probably best done with direct access. 

I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it. If the starter is getting what it needs. Then we know everything else is working. 

[T-boss 410]

So would hooking up a multimeter to the cable at the starter show me the voltage?

[kenfain]

Assuming that you've checked it at the battery. Check it at the starter cable terminal. 

[Travis]

well, it may be hard to get a accurate reading  since you will need to be cranking the engine for that side to get powered up. unless  you disconnect the cable  at the starter and risk sparks and shorting something out.

O

 

[T-boss 410]

The starter is out, but if I can get it checked at a different location, please let me know. I don't want any sparks! It's just a real PITA to get to the solenoid, as well as the ignition switch. 

[kenfain]

Wrap the test lead along with the terminal with electrical tape. So they're connected, or use some extra wire. You should be able to sit in the seat. Those leads are several feet long. 

[T-boss 410]

Well, I can't sit in the seat. Had to remove the seat to access the starter. 

I figured if I kept everything insulated I would keep the sparks to a minimum. 

I don't have a service manual. Didn't want to pay $75.00, especially after seeing some posts from others who have purchased it and advised it wasn't worth the cost. 

The leads that I have with my multimeter are not heavy wire. They won't burn through, will they?

[Travis]

i've tested many high CCA batteries and such and have never burnt through any wires.......oh well... there was one time i let a wire dangle on the exhaust pipe  

i got some of these, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W9HN9R8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

they're worth their weight in gold, come in very handy!

[kenfain]

There's no reason why the wires would burn. There's no starter, and no amp draw, so there's no current. No reason for burning anything. With a bit of care, and some electrical tape. There shouldn't even be any sparks. 

[T-boss 410]

That sounds good. Sparks ain't my friend!

I will disassemble the starter tomorrow and see if I can find anything out of the ordinary. 

I have a set of wires with alligator clips. I'll use those. 

I really appreciate all your help, folks. 

[Travis]

are there any manufacturer markings on the starter so you can identify who made it? Denso usually a sticker with their name and Partnumber on it,

[T-boss 410]

Checked it thoroughly. No stickers or stamping to identify the manufacturer. Only numbers are 201811, on the rear of the housing.  I googled it, but came up with nothing.