Starting

[T-boss 410]

I had it apart last week. I cleaned it up inside, and reassembled it. I checked it to ensure it was functioning properly. I can take is apart again, though.

I'm not sure I understand how this starter works, but it's always engaged with the drive gear. The gear reduction unit is inside the side cover of the engine, on the right side. There's a clutch inside that will only turn one way. At first I thought that maybe something had fallen apart inside the cover when I removed the starter, but there's nothing to fall apart. The only other thing I can think of is that for some reason the starter clutch stopped working. The clutch is behind the generator, and doesn't look like it's too easy to get to. With only 14.6 hours on it, I wouldn't think the starter clutch went bad suddenly.

Could it somehow be operating in reverse of the correct way it's supposed to turn?

[T-boss 410]

I just watched a video of a Yamaha 4 wheeler that was doing the same thing. It had been disassembled and reassembled, and was running backwards. They didn't change anything, but it ran backwards. I could take it apart again, and check it. But I have a question. How do I hold the brushes in? that was a real PITA to reassemble.

Thanks!

[Travis]

do you know which way your engine  (Crankshaft) PTO rotates? CW or CCW, Most likely it's a CCW rotation so the starter should also be spinning Counter clockwise.

 

[Travis]

I finally found them, service manual for the t-boss, $75... it may be worth your money, if you plan on keeping this machine https://www.scautosports.com/Manuals/Service_Manual_TBoss410

[kenfain]

 It was working after you took it apart. So I think the problem is with either the new solenoid. Or there's something going on with the starter. Possibly related to the recent disassembling. Probably not, since it was working.

So I'd check voltage again, then put the old solenoid back on it, for testing purposes. Check operation again, see if it made a difference. 

But if everything else checks out, I'd take it apart again. Or replace it. 

[kenfain]

23 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

I just watched a video of a Yamaha 4 wheeler that was doing the same thing. It had been disassembled and reassembled, and was running backwards. They didn't change anything, but it ran backwards. I could take it apart again, and check it. But I have a question. How do I hold the brushes in? that was a real PITA to reassemble.

Thanks!

Dunno how they managed to make it run backwards. Sounds like a case of reversed polarity. Maybe put the magnets in opposite? 

Whatever the reason they had that problem. I don't think that it's what's going on in yours. Mostly just because it was working before.

Maybe try giving the starter a light tap.

[T-boss 410]

33 minutes ago, Travis said:

I finally found them, service manual for the t-boss, $75... it may be worth your money, if you plan on keeping this machine https://www.scautosports.com/Manuals/Service_Manual_TBoss410

Thanks, I appreciate that. I saw that before, but was hesitant about buying it for that price. I had read a post about it, and the fellow who bought it said it was a gross waste of money. He said it didn't have much information in it to justify the cost. 

[T-boss 410]

17 minutes ago, kenfain said:

Dunno how they managed to make it run backwards. Sounds like a case of reversed polarity. Maybe put the magnets in opposite? 

Whatever the reason they had that problem. I don't think that it's what's going on in yours. Mostly just because it was working before.

Maybe try giving the starter a light tap.

I already tapped on the starter. I am convinced that it's running backwards, but I will put the old solenoid back in and see if that makes a difference. I tested both for resistance, and compared the numbers. The new one has less resistance. I know I wired it correctly. I was very careful about that. 

[kenfain]

If it was starting, and all you changed was the solenoid. I see absolutely no way for it to suddenly start turning backwards. But then, I can't see how it would turn backwards anyway. 

I could see how something could've broke inside the starter though. Something that attaches the shaft to the gear maybe. 

Only one way to find out. But I'd still give it a chance to be something simple. Like a new solenoid that's bad right out of the box. Especially since that's a ten minute test, where you don't even get dirty.

[T-boss 410]

Yeah, I'll check the solenoid tomorrow. Maybe I did connect it wrong, but I don't think so. It looked to be a much better made unit. It's heavier than the other one, and shows less resistance. 

I hope that is the issue. 

[Travis]

Did you check what the voltage is at the starter?

[T-boss 410]

If you mean after installing the new solenoid, no I didn't. I will tackle that tomorrow when I hit this again. I can tell you that the new solenoid was heavier than the old one, if that means anything. It just felt like it was a better unit. 

[T-boss 410]

Should the brushes in the starter motor stay in place when I disassemble it? The last time I did this, it was a real PITA to get the motor back together while holding the brushes in place. 

[T-boss 410]

Well folks, I was correct. The starter was running backwards. Don't know how or why, but I disassembled it and turned the housing and tightened it back up. Had to do that a few times, but it finally spun the correct direction. 

I still hangs up a bit on the compression stroke, but it starts much quicker now. 

Do you all think that it's back to replacing the battery?

[Travis]

I'd replace the battery.

[Travis]

6 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

Do you all think that it's back to replacing the battery?

That would be my next step.

[kenfain]

Turning the housing, is what it takes to reverse the spin on a starter???

Okay...I guess I'm out of ideas here. 

[T-boss 410]

I don't understand it, either. I checked YouTube last night, and there were several instances of the starter turning in reverse. With most of them, the fix was to disassemble, check the brushes, etc. One mentioned to be sure that the casing was replaced in the exact location that it was removed. So I disassembled it, turned the casing (talk about a PITA), and tried it. Still turning the wrong direction. Did it again, turning the casing, and this time it spun the correct direction. 

Don't know how to explain it, but it worked. 

[T-boss 410]

Just an update. Hadn't started the UTV since my last post (01/10/2021), so with crossed fingers I tried today. Starter spun over like it should, started right up and idled smoothly. No problem with compression stroke or anything. 

I guess it was the solenoid after all. Only thing I can come up with, since it started so easy. It's never done that before. 

[Travis]

good news!!

[T-boss 410]

Thanks, so how's yours doing?

[Travis]

Mine's doing great! Still wish I knew what was up with that old starter. But this new one has been flawless.

Just rolled over to 1500 hours.

[T-boss 410]

Keep your fingers crossed!!!

[Travis]

Just now, T-boss 410 said:

Keep your fingers crossed!!!

they're permanently twisted in that position now, LOL

[T-boss 410]

I'm almost afraid to try starting the UTV  again. I am afraid that yesterday was just a fluke, and I will be back to square one. 

[Travis]

3 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

I'm almost afraid to try starting the UTV  again. I am afraid that yesterday was just a fluke, and I will be back to square one. 

Only one way to find out

[T-boss 410]

Lol, yeah. I'll do it. 

[T-boss 410]

Well, I started it again today after sitting for several days. Cranked right up without a hitch. Guess it was the solenoid all along.