cliffyk

8 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

I have a TITLE and a Registration Certificate but NO LICENSE PLATE .. I do not meet  all  requirements   I have a State DMV  6x6  Registration DECAL on the back but clearly says OFF ROAD ONLY 

In Florida "registered" means having a "tag'...

1 hour ago, Joe Breaux said:

You keep screaming REGISTERED!!! I believe its registered. BUT    Once again, REGISTERED is not plated.. All of mine are REGISTERED with LA DMV..  I have all the REGISTRATION CARDS in my Truck with the one for my truck...they all look like that one .    but they are  NOT LICENSED  [PLATED]for street use...    Just show us a pic of the Plate on yours.. and Debate is over..

Florida has "titled/registered" and "titled/not registered" with "registered" denoting having been assigned a license plate (a "tag" in Florida-speak). LSVs are titled/registered (if the MCO declares it compliant with US Title 49 CFR 571.500); golf carts are neither unless converted to an LSV:

A few years back there were several Jacksonville & vicinity ATV/UTV/golf cart dealers  advertising "street legal" vehicles (Massimos were often offered as they will sell to anyone); by providing counterfeit certificates of origin and "tag office" services like auto dealerships. They all shut down about the same time

5 minutes ago, Don W said:

I told you Hiw in great detail! If you don’t believe me I don’t care. I’m extending the same challenge as in my previous post.  Bring 3-4 with you I need the money.  

OK, I see now "how" you got it registered--the dealer in 2018-2019 most likely had a counterfeit MCO (that's about the period covered by the FLDHSMV alert) claiming it to be an LSV. They then tried to cover their backside by getting you to turn in the tag, but you didn't bite--good thinking there!

The Tax Collector's Office is mostly brain dead, they'll renew it forever as long as you fork over their blood money...

Calm down, no one has called you a liar--just curious as to how you got an FL tag on it. There were a number of UTV/ATV and motorcycle shops producing fake MCOs. The Florida DHSMV issued an alert re: same in early 2020... (You can buy security paper MCO blanks on eBay--one of those "Don't ask me how I know." things)...

FWIW--Here's a list from the US EPA showing who made Massimo vehicles from2015 to 2021--their only loyalty seems to be to the lowest cost maker...:

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5 hours ago, Don W said:

HISUN lied, they produce the BANCHI which IS a low speed vehicle. Which basically is the same as my MASSIMO 800 MSU. Except the BENCHI has one more digit in the vin#!  In Fl a low speed vehicle is supposed to be max speed 25, I guess so if they're on the highway they are in the way like a bicycle, scooter etc!  Friend (or former friend) bought one in 2019 and it runs 40 mph. It is registered.

Does it come with an MCO stating it's an LSV? Without that you'll not get a a Florida tag...

7 hours ago, TAC said:

Would I be able to get a couple of these from you.  Thank you. 

 

Are you willing to sell a couple of these.  I’m referring to the seat belt defeater.  Thank you. 

I have two left (you only need one the passenger belt is not bugged)--send me a SASE (I will PM my address) and I'll pop a couple back to you...

3 hours ago, Scott Meszaros said:

cliffyk, just curious.......why do you say the coleman 400 doesn't have enough power to plow snow, if a snow plow could be located?...........my mule is a 400, and it does an excellent job plowing...........

Mostly the fact that it doesn't. I drove mine over 1500  miles through Florid swamps and back country. It's a capable little beast, however it got bogged down in ale deep thick mud more than once--the drive train would not hold up to the rigors of snowplowing. The Hisun 400 is a recreational vehicle that can hit 45 mph flat out, the mule is a hardcore workhorse utility vehicle--different design goals. My 650 cc Ariens tractor has a small plow but you can't really plow much of anything with it.

The Coleman (Hisun) 400 does not have enough power to plow snow; and attempting to do so would most likely destroy the drive train in short order.

1 hour ago, Dafna Brown said:

What electric UTV would you recommend? 

None, nor electric cars. It is an industry in it's infancy that needs time to mature. Electricity is not an energy source it needs to be generated from energy sources--currently in the civilized world a modestly inefficient process to create AC current, we  then carry it, with losses, over power lines to it's application  where in the case of electric vehicles we convert it to DC--with losses-to charge batteries to convert that stored energy to motive force (with losses) Direct conversion of an energy source (gasoline) to motive force is modestly inefficient but still in the overall more efficient than all the conversion and transmission loses. In any valid "Well to Wheels" analysis, modern ICE's win every time...

8 hours ago, EVSupport said:

50mm 2 cable is adequate for the E1 . Rangers use slightly smaller cable size and many mainstream EVs use 50mm2 for the motor cables. You would need max power for some hours to get the cabling warm, let alone so hot as to melt the outer. As its happened in one location and high resistance would cause the localised heating that has to be the cause. I have owned and work on EVs for my income for the last 10 years. 50mm2 is adequate, for this use. The vehicle does not produce a constant 20+kw its a peak power output, if it did you would be working it continuously under full load,  The motors are rated at under 7kw at continuous use  under normal usage.  At  continuous 20kw use the motor and sevcon would have been cutting back due to over heating.  Just to say the cable is undersized is to misunderstand how its used and how the vehicle functions., and the motor / controller specifications.

It could also be a motor cabling fault at the junction with the three feed cables.  Hisun really need to investigate this properly.  The cable size has not been cut its always been the same. I have worked on a few early E1s and they are the same. Some have already been through two sets of batteries prior to coming to me for Li Ion conversions. None have had this problem. The cable from the Sevcon controller to the pack is the same size cable and if it were undersized then that would have been the first section to get hot and fail. 

On the Polaris rangers which I have been in for Li ion conversions, thats so far about 17, which have the higher power Sevcon controller and higher power motor than the E1, none have had fault due to cable sizing . The ranger motor (I just looked ) is rated at 8.5kw and is higher power than the hisun E1.

50mm2 is  in between AWG 1 and 0  its larger than 1 (approx 42mm2) and smaller than 0 (approx 53mm2)

All quite accurate, however in this instance the 50  mm² cable  and/or  the manner in which the terminals were attached were inadequate to their task. Also, sizing of cables with less than 50 % of potential full-load capacity--then relying on a "normal usage"  factor to save your butt--is hardly sound engineering.; an d again in this instance created a significant hazard.

They should be sized for at least 80% of maximum load; however in the OP's case it looks as though the terminations were not properly crimped leading to excessive resistance...

This is a manufacturing defect...

The cable is clearly marked as being 50 mm², equivalent to  AWG 1  cable:

The maximum allowable ampacity of 50 mm² cable is 110 A @ 140° F--however in continuous duty that capacity should be downgraded to 100  A, throw in a crimped terminal and your down to 85 A  or so.

The Sector E1 motor is claimed to be 27 HP which is 20.14 kW (27 *0.746). At 48 V in a single phase  system  it  would  require 419.6 A to deliver 20.14 kW--however as this a 3 phase motor each conductor needs to carry just  1/3rd of that 419.6 A.. Or,  ≈ 140 A

I.e. the cables are undersized, Copper is expensive and someone cut manufacturing costs in the wrong place...

Got any photos, each is worth 1k words...

1 hour ago, Dennis Knepp said:

Sorry about your situation but I dont think a lift kit on the power chair would be a good idea. You'll hit the armrests on the table and won't be able to eat. 

Guess I'll need a kit for the table too...

With a genuine sadness on Friday, last, I sold my beloved "Thing"  (Coleman Outfitter LSV 400/Hisun HS 400). As some of my fellow forum members are aware I recently suffered a massive stroke that negatively affected (a polite way of saying "completely f......  up") my left side. They said I'd never walk again--but I live to prove "experts" wrong, or 1/2 wrong anyway; My upper left side is FUBAR (I could not get into the beast without assistance and once in could not set (or release) the parking brake, or run the light switch or turn signals. The only way out was to fall out onto the lawn.

Time to let it go... Gotta get woking on "modding" my new power wheelchair.--it's only 2WD, but has a motor for each wheel and with decent tires who knows???

I can still read, do research and  and learn; I'll step-in from time to time when I think I can help-please feel free to tell me to "buzz-off" if I get i get annoying...

-cliff-

off into the night...

Are you referring to the seeatbelt and reverse gear limiter?

14 hours ago, tsheh4 said:

Cliffyk im starting to figure out you are the go to guy for info on these machines. Appreciate your info very much, on this and a a few other posts over the last week.

I had the concept in my head right, just didnt nail the vernacular. So now a little deeper down the rabbit hole... I need to figure out how much parts interchangeability there is between a yahmaha and my 400, and the weight of the weights in the variator. Looking at a primary variator made by an outfit called hunterworks. They have applications for many different machines, and they are supposedly machined to be able to give you a little deeper gearing on the low end and slightly higher on the high end. They also make weights to attach to the wet clutch shoes to give a more positve and quicker engagement. From what in hearing there is a chance the kits for a 660 rhino may be a fit.... but im looking for some validation before I drop the cash.

I have heard that (Rhino 660 and HS400 parts interchangeability) as well, but not verified--I have also seen it claimed that Hisun made some Rhinos. though the EPA database does not show this. Looking at photos on the web they "look" the same--perhaps Hunterworks can provide some dimensions--you'd have to take yours apart of course, but that will provide you with the info you need to track down potential upgrades. The wet clutch assembly is held together with Cir-clips so you could disassemble it and play with springs ans added weight. I have done this with a Suzuki Burgman 400 and Honda Silver Wing 600 scooters--pretty much the same CVT but with dry clutches...

Their is only one clutch, the centrifugal wet clutch--I do not know if units with other flyweights available--but that's what would be needed to increase it's engagement rate (at the expense of driveability):

In the HS series he Primary and Secondary CVT sheaves are not clutches but rather a variator (primary) and torque multiplier (secondary)--most "maxi-scooters" (400+ cc) use this type of CVT .

variator:

In the variator centrifugal force flings the weights outward trying to force the pulley halves together as speed increases--this increases the effective diameter of the primary sheave an d draws the belt down into the secondary sheave, attempting to reduce its diameter (I.e. a "higher" (numerically lower) gear)--but in the  torque multiplier (secondary sheave) that action is opposed by the torque spring (and the torque "cam"  and followers)--trying to maintain a "lower" overall gear ratio. They battle it out constantly as the vehicle's torque requirements change.

The torque multiplier cam works because when the belt slips on the fixed pulley half (inboard) it does not on the movable (outboard) half, making the outer half rotate on the hub. As it rotates on the hub the cam grooves try to force the halves apart, increasing the effective diameter and forcing a yet lower ratio--this is the torque "multiplier" function. The cam profile can of course not be easily changed, however the spring can, with heavier springs favouring "lower" overall ratios and lighter springs "higher" gears.

The weights in the variator work similarly, heavier favours "higher gearing" , lighter"lower gearing". But neither are  clutches, despite often being referred to as such.

The only thing that can "slip" and limit engine torque to the wheels (other than the belt which is not likely to) is the wet clutch; but altering the variator weights and/or torque multiplier spring can change the overall CVT ratio making clutch slippage less likely--at the expense of top speed.

3 hours ago, Bob1971 said:

I have same problem with hisun 550 on coleman outfitter...help?

 

The CKP (CranKshaft Position sensor controls when the spark occurs--if it is bad there will be no spark. The black/white wire to the coil is +12V supplied by the ECU, the black/blue wire is the active "drive" signal for the coil--it will be at ground potential when the coil is charging, and floating (disconnected) when the spark occurs.

The way it works is that when the ECU grounds the black/blue wire the coil's primary windings  are energised and build  a magnetic field in the coil's iron core--when the ground to the black/blue wire is disconnected that field collapses generating high voltage in the secondary windings. When that happens is controlled by the CKP...

As I said it was a bit of a balancing act--please do not mention me specifically if you pursue this...

1 minute ago, Sam5 said:

When did you do that i guess the law changed last year addaed as manufactured , unless you build one ??

So you can drive it on roads with double line with 35 mph or less correct

yup, must be posted 35 MPH or less...

1 minute ago, Sam5 said:

Did you show them the title or did they ask for it.

I had to have it inspected before I could get a title--it was all a bit wobbly...

...

20 hours ago, rsar said:

Hey guys. After mulling it over for several months, the wife and I have decided that our old Honda four wheeler's best days have come and gone. It's served us well over the past 8 years but it's time to upgrade to a UTV. We're excited and more than a little nervous, considering some of the horror stories we've read about UTVs at our price point, which is somewhere between 9 and 10k. In my research I've only found a couple options  in that price range that would come with all the options we want (roof, windshield, winch).  The Massimo 410, 550 and the Coleman UT400. We live on a 14 acre property so utility will be it's biggest use but the property is partially wooded with about three quarters of a mile of trails  so there's a little bit of fun to be had too. The trails are pretty narrow however. My four wheeler can navigate them fine but there are some narrow sections that would rule out anything over 54 inches wide or 74 inches tall which takes the Massimo 550 out of the equation. So it's between the 410 and the Coleman. We're leaning towards the Coleman because it's the smaller of the two and about $1400 cheaper. I'm a little concerned about the mixed reviews on the Coleman, though. Seems to me you need to be darn near a mechanic to maintain the UT400, which I am not. I've managed t keep the Honda running all these years but I haven't had to do anything major like adjust the gear linkage, which from  what I've read seems to be a common necessity with the Coleman. Fortunately, our handyman is also a bit of an auto mechanic so we would have him behind us.  In any case, I just wanted to pick some experienced brains to either ease my mind on the Coleman or steer me towards the  Massimo 410 or even something else. 

The Coleman UT400 is a Coleman branded Hisun HS400. I got mine in October of 2020--it now has 720 miles and 52 hours on it, with naught but minor issues, the shift cable adjustment requiring the most attention--but hardly a "major" issue (requiring manipulation of just two 22 mm adjusting nuts). Overall I would judge it to be a well-made and as reliable as this sort of vehicle can/will be. Coleman support has been pretty good in providing manuals, service bulletins. etc.

I would avoid Massimo as their level of customer support is what caused Hisunto drop them as a dealer in 2018. Now they just buy cheap from a half-dozen different manufacturers and slap their stickers on them. As to anecdotal reports of anythings' reliability, there are people out there who beat the crap out of everything they own--so I discount a great deal of that sort of flap...

The last EPA certification for Joyner USA was in In 2019--they had a model TR1100-T4 made by the  Ruiqing Automotive Engine Technology Co. Ltd. with an engine made by the Beijing BAM Company Ltd. (they also appear to make vehicles and engines for Odes)--but their last shipment to the US was on 8/30/2015; so I would not hold my breath waiting for anything from them.

As far as my web reearch can determine  the Joyners are currently  running a real estate operation in Boca Raton, FL.

Rocket100, if you paid with a credit card I would dispute the charge ASAP...

Hello all,

Curious as to other's experience with tire wear and life. The OEM "UTV" tractor tires on my 2020 Hisun HS400 have shed  1/8"+ of tread in just 720 miles. They are Wanda brand, 25x10-12 in the back and 25x8-12 up front.

Looked like this new:

Like this now w/720 miles:

I had not expected 10k miles, however at this rate I'll be lucky to get 2500.

I bought a set of Maxxis tires (same sizes) with wheels for $200, OEM take-offs from a new Honda ATV--so they will be a "bolt-on" replacement when the time comes--What experience are others having with OEM tire life?

Maxxis Honda ATV OEM rear tires: