cliffyk

"limited to the two dealers in my town" means limited to what they sell. So, pIck one. They are both good machines--personally I'd go with the Kawasaki--don't really know why except that I've had three Kawasaki bikes and they all just ran, and ran, and ran.., I put 90k miles on a 1988 1500cc (actually 1450 cc, 88 in³--I.e. an '88 88)  Vulcan I bought when I had to sell my pristine '68 dresser to buy my house back from my ex...

I think I've got it--drove 10 miles or so today, using reverse 4 or 5 times--only once did it whiz, clank, clunk. I have found that shifting while the vehicle is just slightly in motion, or has been stopped for a bit (15-30 seconds),  makes it better--also, shift to reverse and wait 5-10 seconds before hitting the throttle...

2 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

those females are always trouble... but they are a lot of fun...heh heh heh 

But, they always work best when they are good and tight...

21 minutes ago, Travis said:

Welp, almost 2 weeks with no problems, went to go grab some firewood and it clicked 3 times. However i did notice the circuit relay was a bit loose and i pushed it up into the plug a bit further. so maybe that was it. maybe. i doubt it though. Murphy's law is the law of my life.

It did fine for 2 starts afterwards. So i guess we'll see over the next few days if it persists.

The thing i hate most is it's so freaking random.

 

EDIT:

I took a look at the new connector i put on the trigger wire at the solenoid, the dadgum wire pulled right out of it..... I got a new connector  crimped on their now and melted some solder down from the top.

Random almost always = loose/corroded or otherwise poor connection, mechanical things (switches, relays, solenoids. etc.) usually either work or they don't.

After using the Coleman position, but using reverse as the basis, point it was better--however it was getting the back wheels wheels up and final tweaking that git it dialed in. The setting is much more finicky than I would have expected. Before pestering Coleman for their recommendation I had devised my own  procedure that worked OK using the neutral gate s ground zero and adjusting the cable til forward and reverse were equally offset from neutral--, but using reverse seems to work better. 

I always find it helps to know what you are doing--this is the transmission configuration (note the components are not shown in their normal alignment, this is a common annoyance in Asian power transmission diagrams):

The main (input) shaft is at the top--it is powered by the CVT driven sheave and drives the middle (counter) shaft in two ways. One is a chain drive (reverse)--'tother is a gear drive (forward). A sliding cogged shifting collar is what connects either the reverse driven chain sprocket or forward driven gear to the counter-shaft. It is the lateral position of that collar that we are adjusting.

Here is the entire forward/reverse sprocket/gear/collar assembly:

The collar is splined to the shaft,but free to move laterally. The reverse sprocket and forward gear are free to rotate on the shaft until engaged by the collar's cogs. Note that he cogs on the "forward" end of the collar are angled outward at their end, while the "reverse" end cogs are straight (or less angled). I guess this was done to ensure forward was a good solid engagement. However it seems to be what makes reverse engagement fussy.

The reverse driven sprocket rides on a roller bearing on the shaft, the forward gear does not. this is solid design as the reverse sprocket spends most of it's life rotating in the opposite direction of everything else. In "forward", the forward gear rotates  with the shaft--no bearing is needed.

For completeness here's the reverse chain, a solid, robust so-called "silent" chain:

Is this a trick question? It's like asking "How do you avoid sand at the beach?" You don't...

FWIW, I did not find this to work. I had been having problems with delayed shifting into reverse (whizzing, clanking and finally clunking into gear) and followed the instructions to the letter to find it would not shift into reverse at all.

So, as reverse gear was my problem I "reversed" Coleman's procedure (no pun intended)--I used reverse as the basis point: altering step 5. to push  the shift linkage away from the engine (reverse), and then doing all the rest but placing the shift lever in the reverse position to adjust and reconnect the cable.

This worked, but i still tweaked it a bit to get it as smooth as i wanted. I jacked up the back end (wheels off the ground, parking brake off) and alternated between forward, neutral and reverse, spinning the driver's side back wheel  and tweaking the shift cable adjustment until it was obvious each gear (F & R) were ebgaging as positively as they could. Never had a problem with forward, just reverse.

I next started the engine (still jacked up, p-brake off--be CAREFUL HERE!!!) and did some final tweaking (1/4 to 1/2 turn of the adjusting nuts) 'til I was happy. I now have nice, positive shifts into reverse--no whizzing, clanking or clunking...

2 hours ago, Jason.h said:

The reason I would want a manual is just because I enjoy driving them more. Thanks guys!

I understand, I owned nothing but manual transmission vehicles for 45+ years--a stroke in late 2011 changed that--got my first auto, a 2012 Infinity M37; still have it, best car I have ever owned...

26 minutes ago, Blair said:

Yea, I kinda stalled out over here. It's been raining and turned a little too cool outside.

Here is a adjustment point. The tiny red X is the nut I will be tightening. It's too cramped in my garage right now to do it. It was a challenge to get the picture. What do ya'll think?

It looks like there's maybe 1/2" and a bit of adjustment--wonder what is supposed to keep that barrel nut on there?  Ii you get some exposed thread when you tighten it see if you can get a lock nut on the rod--looks like an M5 or M6 thread. If you can find it, the other end of the cable with the longer threaded rod would offer more adjustment--it has to be at the operating lever end...

On the new cable it looks as though the end of the threaded extension mat be upset a bit: 

8 hours ago, Blair said:

When I see that weird name, I just look at it. I've never even tried to pronounce it. I didn't see any benefit from it.

Getting back on track, how are you doing with that parking brake?

If you can post photos of what you can see, I'd love to have a look at 'em...

1 hour ago, Blair said:

When I see that weird name, I just look at it. I've never even tried to pronounce it. I didn't see any benefit from it.

That's just how my brain works too...

8 minutes ago, Travis said:

i usually only buy something i can pronounce

They know that, hat's why they sell them as Hisun USA, Inc.

They would cost more to make (this is a very competitive cost driven industry) and there is little to no demand. Personally I think the CVT is better suited to off-road use.

11 hours ago, Blair said:

Dang man. Now that is a backstory. That is important information to me. I'm a small business owner, same company now for 34 years. I was actually considering applying to be a dealer for Massimo. My nearest authorized dealer is in Kentucky! I thought I could set the woods on fire with sales in the Metro Davidson/Nashville Area. There's 2 million people out here and no Hisun dealer.  With your added valuable info, I think I would rather maintain my reputation and especially my sanity. At any rate, I got a real laugh out loud to your: "getting tired of screwing". That's funny... I should be so lucky.

I think it wise to avoid a relationship with Massimo, they seem to care most about their interests. I don't know if Hisun is seeking vendors, but you might want to consider that. My HS400, which I bought as a Coleman UT400, seems to be quite well made; and looking at the model's history there appears to be a record of constant improvement. The engine in mine is both water and oil cooled, it also uses forced air cooling of the magneto.

I found through the EPA data that the chassis, bodywork and suspension were made by the Vietnamese  company--into which they installed the Hisun produced engine and drive train. The welds, obviously machined generated, are textbook perfect, alignment and all is spot on.   

11 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

you cant steer in 4wd.. with all wheels pulling , it just wants to go straight  not turn .. mine will actually push the turned front wheels straight forward 

My 400 will steer OK in 4WD on more firm surfaces, even a sandy road,  but on the beach in the deep, fine, soft sand we have due to beach "replenishment"¹ it wants to squirm all over the place.  Not a real problem but disconcerting and annoying when suddenly the vehicle rotates 5° to 10° by itself--it doesn't really turn, just rotates and ends up pointing in a different direction.

-------------------------------------------------
¹- Replenishment = pumping  very fine sand from the ocean floor 1/2 to 1 mile out onto the beach. It is NOT normal beach sand, more like a powder; it blows all over the place, we now have 20-30+ foot high dunes where 25 years ago there were none.  A typical Government "good intention" not thought through all the way and gone wrong in the end.

4 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

The old 3 wheelers were easily rolled over while turning but if you kept it going straight you were OK .. with ballooon tires they practically floated ...and thats all we had then 

I remember the dinosaurs too...

I had a chain drive pedal driven tricycle when I was a kid, that would flip easily in a turn too. Re; "floating", that's what my HS400 does on the beach., we have designated driving areas between the dunes and the beach proper that get significantly rutted up from the heavier, wider track vehicles--my little 1100 lb. UTV get two wheels in a rut and two wheels floating on the mound between the ruts; and cannot make up it's mind which way to go. 2WD is better than 4WD if I don't need the extra traction. 4WD with the front diff locked is horrible, grabbing and turning every which way, tossing the back end around.

4 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

Dude my MSU 500 overheated in its very first mile on its first day in my possession.. factory STILL has not paid for that repair bill..  3 years now... It had  been in shop 6 times by the 300 mile mark.. Factory has paid ZERO!  I paid for new head, waterpump, headgasket , and lots of labor.... When I called MASSIMO, They told me they changed engine suppliers and dont warrenty HISUN... I said I had warranty and they need to pay .. Rep laughed and said..." NEVER GONNA HAPPEN"   then hung up .. Shops here wont touch one unless you pay up front 

I got in a discussion on linked-in about my early cgriatmas present to myself (my HS400)--the discussion broadened as they do on that forum and a couple of fellows in the RV industry got invilved. They said it was well known in the "industry" that Chongqing Huansong Science and Technology Industrial Co., Ltd. (Hisun) dumped Massimo in 2018--having become fed up with their poor quality control and customer service.

Your experience with them bears out Hisun's concerns, and the EPAdata (see a clip below) illustrates Massimo's marketing of  Chongqing Huansong (Hisun) manufactured vehicle from 2010 through 2018--when they abruptly switched to a variety (four to be specific) of other Chinese and makers--selected I am sure by cost, not quality.

Massimo likes to bill itself as a "builder" (implying "manufacturer") of recreational vehicles--however in reality they are an assembler and vendor of kits they buy from various manufacturers; they assemble as required and carefully place their brand stickers on the stuff they slap together.. They do not "make" anything any more than I "made" Mr. Machine when I was seven.

I would not have expected installation of parking brake pads to be part of Massimo's assembling the vehicle, but who knows, they may have saved 50¢per unit by buying them very completely disassembled--or maybe Hisun screwed up. My HS400 is vert well made, green paint daubs on everything that had to be installed/torqued.

Last Fall my daughter bought a "some assembly required" 4' x 8' Folding utility trailer from Harbor Freight--what she got was two large boxes, one containingthe axle and wheels, the other containing steel panels and angle iron--AND a 25 lb. plastic bag of 893 million nuts & bolts.

Fortunately the grand-kid was there to help the geezer. I never before thought I could get tired of screwing--"some assembly required" my backside...

2 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

I just adjusted mine ALL THE WAY it could go to tighten it.. still wont stop it from rolling... I looked at the caliper on the output shaft operated by the E-brakewith a flashlight... .. it has NO PADS  in it.. never installed by Massimo  I guess 

That's a lawsuit waiting to happen--get photos of that!

2 hours ago, Blair said:

That's what I'll try. I'll keep you posted. Thanks man, you Rock!

My father and grandfather were both engineers--my grandfather a "stationary steam engineer" in a mill in Paisley Scotland--I can';t stand broken stuff, even if it's not mine; just the way I was raised.

Here's a good sectional drawing of a the hand lever of a typical  cable operated hand brake:

If you remove the cover on you brake handle you will likely see something like that. It would be the best way of adjusting the free play (likely has a wider range of adjustment too).

-cliff-

2 hours ago, Blair said:

That's it Cliff!!!
I have access to the one in the middle. I couldn't to figure out how to adjust/tighten.  Should I engage the brake and then tighten the nut in the middle diagram. Or should I do the opposite. I'm thinking this is where you tighten the brake.

I would alter the middle adjustment with the p-Brake handle "off", as you have too much free play you want to lengthen (tighten)  he cable sheath  which would be loosening the nut near the rubber grommet and tightening the other. Do so until the brake handle is capable of locking up the brake (typically this is when it "clicks: a couple times when engaging. If this is not possible find the end with the long threaded rod and tighten that.

I got that from a Chinese supplier we used some years back for machine parts...

100% FWIW, I found this on a Chinese Manufacturers Parts site--it claimed to be for the 2019+ Odes DominatorX.

Looks to have three possible adjustments--one at the caliper end (left), one at he sheath clamping point (middle), and one at what I believe is the handle end (right).

-cliff-

18 minutes ago, Blair said:

Good info! That had not crossed my mind. Thanks

An automatic transmission vehicle without an effective  parking brake is dangerous as Hell. Tell them  the next call will be from your neighbour's lawyer when it rolls down your driveway and kills his 4-year-old...

BE sure to play up your "safety" concerns when you call. that word can often get their attention...

Typically with the single rotor on the axle pinion shaft arrangement there is some provision in the p-brake cable for adjusting the anchor point or length of the cable sheath. On my Hisun 400 with a foot operated parking brake there is an adjustable junction in the cable sheath that allows it's length to be adjusted (longer outer cable = less free play):

This is the procedure for the Hisun based MSU800--if we get lucky your Odes based vehicle will be similar:

-cliff-

The assemblers (Coleman, Massimo, Bennche, Odes, et al ) of these vehicles change their manufacturing sources more often than most of us change socks--also, for them "assemble" generally  means putting on their brand's stickers.

Massimo re-sources their models often and has in recent years used at least six manufacturers (per EPA "can't hide" data¹--it's interesting stuff) some have produced only one or two models, others have produced numerous models, changing over the years--predominately Hisun, Linhai and Odes:

Chongqing Rato Technology Co., Ltd.   [2017-2019]  (RATO Carts also branded as Massimo Mini-ATVs);
Chongqing Huansong Science and Technology Industrial Co.,Ltd.  [2015-2018]  (Hisun also branded as: Coleman, Massimo, Bennche)
Shandong Liangzi Power Co., Ltd. [2018-2021]  (Odes also branded as: Massimo , Lil' Pickup, U-Storm) -- the latter two seem to no longer be with us;
Taizhou Nebula Power Co., Ltd. [2017-2020] (REO Carts also branded as: Massimo);
Jiangsu Foma High-Tech Power Machinery Co., Ltd. [2020-2021] (branded as: Massimo
Jiangsu Linhai Power Machinery Group Co., Ltd. [2017-2021] (Linhai also branded as: Massimo);

These last two are "joined at the hip"--it seems "High-Tech Power" is a new subsidiary (or just a marketing arm) of the "Power Machinery" group.

Hisun  is the  Chongqing Huansong Science and Technology Industrial Co.,Ltd. house brand -- Odes is Shandong's house brand: Linhai is of course Linhai.

Your MSU800  was made by Shandong according to  the EPA's 2021 database (I believe it is the same vehicle as the Odes Dominator X2-ST -- they look the same):

Do you know if the parking brake (they stopped being "emergency brakes" in 1947)  a single rotor on the rear axle input shaft, or mechanically implemented at each rear wheel?
And to what adjustment do you refer, handle position or pad clearance at the caliper? They are of course related, but often adjusted separately.

-cliff-

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¹ - I need to get their spreadsheet into a database so I can make a "Who Makes What?" listing by model name.