cliffyk

Here's a new one from MotorCycle Doctor on eBay. ($3855 w/shipping ain't cheap, but they have a solid reputation).--it's pretty...

^^^Can't beat that!!!

I am not entirely certain what is meant by "all terrain' tires.  To me"all terrain"  means tires that will get me anywhere I care to go--or are you referring to tire industry "buzzword" "all terrain" tires (i.e. DOT rated pretend off-road tires)?

The actual all-terrain Wanda 25x???x12 tires that came on my Outfitter 400 do just that, and are commonly available...

+++100 or so on this--I have never used it, but a very good friend who bought a retired CHP 900 Kawasaki did--with EXCELLENT results--look's like new.--10 years with the CHP is NOT light duty...

An engine is not going to be cheap; probably $3000 to $3500 unless you get real lucky--that's close to what an entire used rig might cost if you find a motivated seller that's not a divorced airline stewardess who wants to sell it via eBay Motors for a pile of Walmart gift cards ( I know why her husband divorced her). There are a few outfits on the web that rebuild ATV/UTV engines--I wonder what the special tools cost?

How is the compression? I have read that bleeding the coolant systems on some of these engines can be a bear--have you thought of borrowing from the AC industry and pulling a vacuum on it via the bleed plug? I did that years ago on a 1988 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 that did not want to cooperate. HF has a $90 2.5 CFM vacuum pump that works well, I've had mine for 7 or 8 years.--in fact on 12/31/2017 (Yes, New Year's Eve¹) we had our home AC replaced, the techs that did it had two vacuum pumps, neither would work. I asked if they'd like to use mine and after their initial shock it dd the job quite well.

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¹ - We got a heck of a deal on the system as it was the last day  they could sell it due to it's SEER rating not meeting standards going into effect on 1/1/2018.

2 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

be sure if you have a wet clutch that you use an oil FOR wet clutch use..some  full synthetics will turn your  wet clutch quickly into "neutral" .. I use 10W40 Castrol ACTEVO... specifically designed for Motorcycle/ATV wet clutch systems 

Joe, have you personally experienced this? I've heard the story over and over again for years now, but have never had the problem, nor known ay one who has. However I do not generally use synthetic oil in my bikes--as I said earlier I change it rather often (1000-1200 miles usually) to keep it as clean as possible for the ball bearings.

Those are typical of the stuff the "lift kit" people churn out--as I stated earlier engineering is not something in which they excel. .

I was out riding today and did some experimentation re: engine braking. if I release the throttle, when in gear and at speed, it appears that as long as the vehicle is moving faster than 10 mph or so the ECU will hold engine speed above idle keeping the centrifugal clutch engaged and thus providing compression braking. I knew there was an element of engine braking provided  however I had not previously realized the ECUs role in providing it.

Does it currently run? If so what problems does it exhibit indicating a new engine is in order?

I want to add that because the transmission an d output shaft are lubricated by engine oil (like most motorcycles) there is no such thing as changing the engine oil too often. Ball-bearings like clean oil. i change the engine oil on my bikes twice as often as "recommended" and the filter every other change¹--cheap insurance...

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¹- Perhaps counter-intuitive, and not at all what those who sell oil filters want you to hear--a slightly used oil filter actually filters better than a new one. As it "clogs" it becomes better at filtering out particulate matter--there is of course a time at which it clogs to the point of not providing sufficient volumetric flow. But any normal spin-on filter is easily  good for two "half-the-recommened-cycle" change.. Been doing this for 40+ years with never an oil related failure.. My '89 MIata had 385k miles(200k supercharged) on it when i sold it--the buyer and his son drove it from Tampa to Deal's Gap for a two-week spree the very next day...

39 minutes ago, Mackc said:

I have a Massimo 2019 Buck 400 and the wet clutch uses the engine oil . The transmission and final drive both use gear oil

That is a different beast with a stand-alone transmission; bearing no relation to the Hisun 400 on which both the centrifugal clutch, transmission, and longitudinal middle (output) shaft  are in the crankcase, lubricated as one would expect by engine oil.  The front differential and rear reducer are individually lubricated by gear oil in their respective housings.

20 hours ago, Travis said:

I don't think i posted this, but the other day when it acted up, i unplugged the trigger wire, and got a screwdriver and went from the BIG + on the Starter solenoid, and shorted to the trigger TAB on the starter solenoid. And of course that big + is able to provide more amperage than the trigger is.

it started right up. and the way this starter system works is when the trigger gets voltage, it pulls the solenoid in and the solenoid has a piece that pushes the starter gear out to mesh with the flywheel, now of course the flywheel and starter gear aren't going to be properly aligned every time, so the starter gear is free to spin  one way independent from the starter shaft.  If the solenoid is getting enough power through the trigger, it should be enough force for the gear to move enough to mesh with the flywheel, i think instead the trigger isn't pulling the solenoid hard enough and when it isn't meshed just right, it can't overcome that friction.

I could just start doing like Fred Flintstone.... cut the floor board out of it, LOL

I am surprised the starter uses  an automotive style solenoid operated pre-engagement type drive. Most modern bikes and such  have constant mesh starter drives with one-way clutches somewhere  between the starter and the crankshaft--the starter can turn the engine but the  engine cannot turn the starter.

Nonetheless, from what you describe it's obvious there is some connection/component in the starter switching circuit that is not delivering sufficient power to pull in the starter solenoid  and engage the drive pinion or electrical contacts to power the motor--that's progress. Now completely disassemble the starter switching circuity wiring, clean all connections, and examine all components and wiring. If the starter itself is not the problem than it has to be a problem in either the high current feed to the starter or the control circuit.

It's a "ground up" restoration of the starter wiring...

Actually you can, the real differences between GL-4 and GL-5 are nearly negligible. GL-5 is claimed to handle shock loading better than GL-4; and be slightly more "slippery" making the EPA happy.. If I had an axle with dirty oil that really needed to be changed, and had nothing but a bottle of GL-4 on the shelf, I use it and not lose a moment's sleep...

Welcome aboard!

I also have a Coleman 400--got it last October, 505 miles on it as of earlier today. I like it...

I just changed the gear oils in my 2020 Outfitter 400  a couple days ago--used Supertech (Walmart's house brand) 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil, which is made by Valvoline--Its what i  used it in my 2003 515 HP 2003 Mustan g Cobra, thatr's why there was a nearly full  bottle on the shelf in the barn..--use it in my 2009 Honda Silver Wing too. Heck, I'd use it in anything without hesitation...

In reviewing what I wrote earlier re: full dissaasembly of everything, it occurred to me that i am normally a "don't fix it if it ain't broke" guy.

However given the age of your vehicle and the persistent nature of your problem--I believe assuming it is all broken and  proactively  "fixing" it all is called for...

6 hours ago, Travis said:

i'm thinking about trying this one, pins appear to be in the correct order, almost looks like an exact copy of the Denso relay on it now. and if it doesn't work, it's only $9 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Car-Motor-12V-SPST-Relay/dp/B0177ANEQ2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=4+pin+relay+spst&qid=1615345807&sr=8-3

That looks great! 40 A should be entirely sufficient--proabably fed by a 30 A fuse max anyway.

I agree, after 3 starters it's beginning to look like some other problem.

With a machine of the vintage of  yours I would  disconnect,  clean and inspect every wiring connection in both the low and high current starter circuitry--and while doing so also test each and every electro-mechanical component (switches, relays, etc.) of same. Clean the connectors 'til they shine and reassemble with dielectric grease to prevent (or more correctly slow down) future corrosion.

Closely examine every crimped terminal/connector making certain they are tight and corrosion free--when in doubt replace the terminal/connector. Run each wire end-to-end though your hands felling for bumps in the insulation and other irregularities that might indicate internal corrosion. It is not at all unusual for even the tiniest nicks in insulation to allow moisture to enter and corrode the wire from within .

Also don't stop because you find one obviously bad connection/wire/???--even if it's so obviously bad "this has to be it"; there may be more (I can't tell you how many times over the years that one has"got me").

Above all; "Work the problem--don't just throw parts at it." (another of my grandfather's admonitions).

I think that's a pretty silly generalized conclusion for anyone to make--it could very well be the starter solenoid (relay) however it could just as possibly be any of a  number of other issues--bad brushes or shorted amature in the starter, poor connection(s) anywhere in the starter low or high current power  or ground, a weak cell in the battery, or a small gnome with indigestion  living in the crankcase.

"The last time any machine starts and runs properly may have been the last time it will start and run properly"
-George Monroe- a Scottish Stationary Steam Engineer and my maternal grandfather.

NAPA also has some higher quality cube relays--they can get a bit pricey though...

Cool.. I have used that NTE 90 A relay for over 5 years with an onboard 2 HP compressor (that pulls over 120 A at startup) on my Tacoma. Never a problem of any sort.

Never mind--I thought this was as photo of the cable connector--I see now that it is the bottom of the relay.

I next thought that to connect the standard automotive "cube" relay you'd need some short patch cables with female terminations at each end.

I see now that is not the case, though you will still likely need some configuration of patch cords as the configuration of the terminals is different--unless the female terminations in the vehicle cable can be removed from the connector body to plug directly to the generic relay.

iT appears to be just a plain ol' SPST-NO  (Single Pole Single Throw Normally Open) relay. The only issue I see is that the typical 4-pin "ice-cub e" automotive relay has male spade connectors same ass the OEM "socket" on your beast--but four short wires with female terminal at each end would remedy that. A really good 90A SPST relay by NTE is $8 or so.

There is no risk--if there is no pinging or other signs of preignition or detonation.

There are only a handful of manufacturers that actually make the parts for these things.

My "Coleman" Outfitter 400 is a re-branded Hisun HS400 , actually made by the  Vietnam New Century Industrial Company Limited;

I have mixed emotions about that a I spent 13 months in Vietnam in 1967--it sucked...