brostar

Not your fault at all roc, just don’t write off Joyner to soon. We are only weeks away from the new 2011 models and you are referring to 2008/09 Troopers. You can always look at it like this rocmoc, if you, Lenny, Kinarfi, myself and most other members all brought a 2011 T2 with the billing I’m giving it, I don’t think we all would of meet each other, UTV Boards probably wouldn’t exist, Jeff & Lenny would be bored, I would be to busy to even look at the computer and you would be racing the thing somewhere. Our 08/09 T2's have multiple problems, we all know that. 09 T2’s are an improvement from the 08, a 2011 T2 is built how a Trooper should be. Little things like gauge and back side dash protection, new ball joints & steering rod joints, all suspension bolts upgraded to 10.9 from 8.9 grade bolts to go with the new shock absorbers and all wiring improved including waterproof fuse boxes and connectors with colour code wiring tested by the supplier first. These are a few of the improvements I have in front of me now. Some of these new improved parts will be available straight away like a retrofit mechanical actuator(2WD-4WD Shift) for previous models. My message is, “it is all about to get a whole lot better, not worse, not the same but better”. I wonder what the next generation of Joyner owners will say about their 2011 model in three years from now? Cheers Mike.

klung-motor.com, I guess the words to take on board from what whobbies said and I backed up is listen to what you western customers are telling you. Let me short cut that for you. We know China is very capable of producing anything we ask of you, oh but the thing to remember and get right is, “do it just like we asked you to”. Chinese want to try so hard to impress us, but the problem is, you would manufacture it in your part of China, how Chinese would do it. That's it right there, we want it how we like it, not how you want to impress us. Do it our way, not yours because we are the consumers and buyers, not somebody who thinks like you in your province. Take this advice on board and carry on with what you have already been producing and Klung-motor. com guess what? You have just positioned yourself to become part of the market place Globally . I have looked at your website and you have some attractive units, but I would not even contemplate contacting you without some form of a western influence after what I have learnt from the last four years that I have been importing from China. Do it to American standards, design and appeal and they will buy your product. The photo you posted of a Joyner like diff would make most of UTV Board members want to throw up. Mate, you simply have to do better than that. I am blown away with what Great Wall of China has achieved in New Zealand in a short couple of years and this is what I’m trying to tell you. Listen to us, we are your customers. For those that don’t know Great Wall of China Utes, they have gone from 1 or 2 stars in crash tests to 4 and 5 stars within two years. The big Japanese brands took 20 years to do that. That’s impressive and China should be proud. I will give you an example of how it goes wrong from a New Zealand and Western prospective; A New Zealand company called Pacific Hovercraft NZ Ltd contracts a company in China called Supreme Hovercraft aka China Hovercraft to manufacture and build Hovercrafts to a specific design and build. There is major contracts and pre-sales already in place but China Hovercraft go off in their own direction to save money and produce the first run of Hovercrafts. This story gets long here but to get my drift with facts backing it all up, read all the way through. Over 12 years Pacific Hovercraft NZ Ltd (PHNZ - www.hovercraft.co.nz) has developed a range of hovercraft and exported them worldwide. The company built many craft ranging from 2-12 seats in size and then secured a number of orders for even larger craft from Malaysia and India. Due to a lack of capital, the drastically fluctuating NZ dollar value, the high cost of labour, and harassment by IRD (NZ Tax Dept.), PHNZ sought to take on a suitable business partner and set up an overseas factory to satisfy these orders. They looked at China. PHNZ signed an Agreement with Mr Yang (Supreme Hovercraft aka China Hovercraft) which, among other things, included royalty payments for each and every craft built in China. PHNZ company engineers moved to China in early 2008, trained the Chinese workers, and built the first 12 hovercraft. There were a number of issues relating to faulty Chinese parts, unskilled workers, and the first ever craft built in China being sold and delivered even before they were finished or tested. Despite the agreement (and his Chamber of Commerce speech) Mr Yang did not buy the NZ company (let alone for a purchase price of US$14m!), he has never paid royalties, and he still owes PHNZ workers salaries. To cut this story short, the New Zealand company is owed millions of dollars, the moulds, designs and jigs, but the Chinese company is suing the New Zealand company for Millions od Dollars for lost revenue. The revenue was lost because of the Chinese manufacture doing it all wrong. If they had simply done what was required, both companies would be enjoying a Million dollar turnover. Google for the full story, but do you get my drift klung-motor.com, because if you don’t, you are all ready in dire straits. Joyner has made this connection and is about to enjoy the benefits of it. Am I full of crap, do I just talk it up, only time will tell for you, but I already know the answer. Sorry about the long post, but I feel it was worth it. Cheers Mike.

rocmoc & plumber, Ill have to be honest here and say if I knew just how much trouble the first generation Trooper would give us all back in 2007/08, I would of become a Yamaha dealer or something. Im glad I didnt, just look at how many Rhino owners have died, lost a limb or written off their UTVs since then. Look, the thing is there would not be to many new vehicles that are perfect in every way from day one and the Rhino is still horrible after many improvements. Its all about how they evolve. With cars, some start off as crap and dont really improve much. I like to think the Trooper started off as really good concept (which is why you own a Trooper in the 1st place) that needed refining. As you will soon see, the 2011 is refined so please dont group every Joyner the same way until you feel expert enough to say so. Joyner Buggies are a premium brand, they hardly fit the bill of no recommendation and thats before Ken Morriss input. A 2011 Trooper and Renegade is in a different league altogether from a 2008 model. To rephrase what rocmoc and plumber just said, they would not recommend a 2008- 2009 Trooper. What I say is, I highly recommend a 2011 Trooper to any one, or my name is mud. Heres a question, just how did a 57 Bel Air get to be so good? Through evolution of course. It would not of got to that stage if failures through previous other models stopped the 57 Bel Air from being in production. Or to put it another way, the 57 Bel Air arrived out of the blue with no prior model or or no other Chevy car, just how good would it of been. It would be shite. (Bare in mind, we are talking a 1957 car) At the risk of causing fiction between myself and two follow members who I think of as friends(all be it on-line) pull your bloody heads in and re-phrase what you both have said. Surly all you both can say is a pre 2011 Trooper should be off your shopping list at best and I will add, there is no fool like an old fool. Maybe I wont say that about old fools, so will take that back. The other thing is rocmoc and plumber, just look at the passion for the Trooper right here on UTV Boards, thats real and I see plenty from both of you two too. Cheers Mike

Ken moved to China, so his commitment is not in doubt at all. Cheers Mike.

2scoops, I’ll add to your post to answer your questions as best I can. I have to be honest, I am getting a little confused on the big picture of Joyner. Here is how I understand it, but I may be way off: Joyner factories in China are still building vehicles and parts, but there is no major Joyner Importer in the US; however, other countries are experiencing no problems? That is correct. Are the gentlemen listed above trying to get it going again? If so, to what extent? Small importer or large (similar to what it once was)? Correct and all the hard work is done. The most important thing is parts and they will appear first with the new models. Joyner will have to regain lost dealers thanks to JMC not importing stock. Some dealers have been trading through these difficult times, some have disappeared. It’s Joyner USA’s intention to rebuild their dealership in North America and gain more of the market share they enjoyed before. They have one really good tool to make this happen, quality and plenty of it. If it does get going again, there needs to be some serious quality assurance over in China making sure things are being done right. In the last three years we have identified nearly every single issue which can fault a Joyner. If ALL of these items were fixed they would rival anything out there. It has already got going, the parts and new 2011 models will make an appearance very soon, some containers are have already arrived and others are on the water as we speak. There is no such thing as stopping part failure, but you can reduce the risk of that happening. This comes through solid engineering, using quality materials, manufacturing the correct way and testing. How has Changzhou Joyner managed to achieve this in such a sort time? It was time it's self and they had plenty of it. Think about it, about 80% of Joyner’s turnover was generated in North America, take that away and you have time. They made use of this extra time and turned one big negative into a fantastic positive saturation. There will be new easy to follow manuals released soon too that has had the part numbers revamped to a better standard. I have a long list of improvements in front of me, but not sure if I can release this yet or not, but it’s fair to say that it is very impressive. All of my friends that have checked mine out say they would rather have it than any other UTV (price being considered of course). Then, I explain the inherant issues with it...I almost feel like I am talking them out of buying one. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my machine, but I got it for a very good price, so I feel all of the fabrication and uprades I have done are justifiable. If I paid sticker price I would feel very different. If 90% of the issues are fixed with new models it would be a steal @ $12k. Tell them to buy new. A 2011 Trooper will have a MSRP of USD$11,999.99 and a Renegade R2 USD$9,999.99. These are night and day compared to my 2008 T2 I have for my own use. Cheers Mike.

What Tony said on steroids. Very wise words indeed and can back up 100% what you have just said. It may be long, but read it all the way through. Experience gives to insight, understanding and knowledge and you have plenty of all three Tony. The Joyner stock parts will be available very soon. Please remember the lack of Joyner parts in North America is nothing to do with the manufactures at all and they are doing their upmost to give you the support that you all deserve. Ken Morris has spent a great deal of his time in China making sure that Joyner parts are going to be up to standard, I’m talking years of time with input like designing, testing and tweaking from an American engineer, not a wham bam thank you man product copied and made overnight. Be very careful with what parts you buy. Joyner has just upped it’s quality standards as you will all find out in the coming months. Cheers Mike.

OK, here are the contacts for Joyner USA Inc Kris Able aka Kable on UTV Boards/ [email protected] Garth Livermore aka joynergarth / [email protected] Ken Morris aka Changzhou Joyner / [email protected] The new website is delayed slightly, but should be up soon. The site will be/ www.joynervehicles.com You can ask them here too, so everybody gets the knowledge. Kinarfi, maybe make this a Pinned thread ? Cheers Mike

I will answer this under a new topic so it will be easy to find next time. I’ll head it “Joyner USA Inc”. Contact Kris Able with any question's about shocks. He will know for sure. Cheers Mike.

Here are two sites that can and will help you with your Dirt Devil. Your best source of information and good advice period for Dirt Devil’s will be Buggy News. Their website; http://buggynews.com/ . Your next best is Joyner Forum but they have been off line for a few days. Website is; http://joynerforum.com/ If you don’t get the answers you were looking for, contact Eric Jackson of McDonough Powersports; website http://www.mcdonoughpowersports.com/index.aspx rocmoc, a Joyner Dirt Devil is a first generation Joyner 250cc Buggy. Cheers Mike.

Ahh, you fellers and shellers are sooo shy over there, I cant believe it. Im not going to the jamboree and I dont mind showing you a photo of me and the misses. Beautiful photo aye, it's our most photogenic and one we are very proud of. Seriously though, I totally agree with Mopartist and think you should exchange photos and contact details, even if it's done privately, so come on, front up. I reckon I could find photos of Jeff and Michael (you know who you are) anyway. Front up and I'll post the real Mr & Mrs brostar for what it's worth . Cheers Mike

I was going to post this last week about Mudslinger’s custom fenders. Check them out here http://www.utvboard.com/gallery/image/467-fenders2jpg/ Mudslinger, is a Joyner Dealer in Alberta and his website is http://www.mudslinger.ca/ These look good and you can tell they would do the job required. Cheers Mike.

Well, I may as well chime in and tell you about my little accident in the weekend. I was out fishing with a few mates and we caught a boat load of beautiful big Snappers. We had a fantastic time and decided to pull into a small bay to fillet the fish. The boat is a purpose built charter boat that stores rods under the overhang roof and was walking under our rods and a hook pierced right through my ear. Didn’t see it because I had a cap on. We had to cut the hook off. I was hooked on fishing and now fishing is hooked on me. I've got the photo, but I’m not posting it. I got off lightly compared to Lenny and rocmoc by the sound of things. Cheers big ears.

It’s time I gave my humble opinion and that would be, enough said. Joyner has just been though extraordinary times and is under extreme pressure. Both owners and dealers are under a lot of pressure. I feel for you all in North America, after all Joyner came about with you in mind. The vehicles were designed and engineered by Americans for Americans and you have had to go through extreme B.S this last 18 months or so. What I can say is, one week is a long time so lets just take a big breath and go back to the positive mode of helping each other out. The reason for this spat is Joyner passion and I guess that’s not a bad thing. I can confirm that Jarrad is 100% a Joyner man through and through and Silver Bullet is pro-active in helping those in need of Joyner parts. What ever side you are on, we are all part of of one big Global Joyner family, lets not forget that. Global? Well you guys and me anyway. Why aren’t there more non- North American Joyner people on here when I know they read these threads. Mike.

Cool, that clears that up. Cheers Mike.

They might be ugly but in a rain storm or on a cold day they are practical and easy to store. You have the best of both worlds now. Win Win Win. Cheers Mike.

That’s the old Team Joyner full enclosure with a hard roof including a front and rear window panel. Glad you replaced the ugly canvas side panels Rick. Great job, you get my thumbs up. Cheers Mike.

Hi Garth, welcome to UTV Boards. Thanks for offering your help. This forum has and will continue to be a great source for people seeking help and information. With you and Kris now adding to this, I can only say that it’s good news for all Joyner owners and on behalf of them, I’ll pass on their appreciation to you both. Cheers Mike.

Interesting, very interesting.

Yeah thanks for that Jarrad, no worries mate. The help & friendship has worked both ways. Cheers Mike

Thanks Rick.

Thanks everyone for your concerns and emails. The earthquake has torn apart or to put it bluntly totally stuffed our second largest City, Christchurch. We are in the north of the North Island, Christchurch is half way down the South Island. We have family and friends down there and they are all fine. That’s the main thing. As Jarrad put it, the whole world seems to be going crazy this week. The bill for this is going to drive NZ, deeper into a finical nightmare, we will climb out of it, but it will take years. Mike.

I've just sent though a P.M Mike.

Hey Rick, I take exception to what you just said about Joyner China. The way I see it, Changzhou Joyner is contracted to JMC and can not deal directly with you even though they would love too. This doesnt make them not helpful, it means their hands are tired. Lets all just remember that the Joyner manufacturers are in no way part of what has happened in North America, period. They could not possibly foresee that JMC would simple not order units or parts. I dont know of anyone that blames them at all. This last 12 months or so has done nothing, other than to make them more determined to make sure contractual agreements will be 100% vetted in the future. Talking out of tune Rick, when Joyner can not possible help you, will really get you in their good books aye! I think you may of made a typo and should of said, JMC is not being helpful. Cheers Mike.

I’m way to small in New Zealand, in fact I would be one of the smallest Joyner Global markets. I do have plans to change that though. NZ is a small fish in the big ocean so we feed off the rest of the world. As flatbed knows, we have some brilliant minded problem solvers, but they mainly keep to their own projects. I have done a bit here and there like sourcing some aftermarket parts, a suitable turbo for the Trooper and designed and got somebody to make up a bolt on muffler and I made up some tow bars, but that’s about all. I go on the Russian Joyner website a couple of times a month to see what they are up to and Jarrad’s correct, they do some crazy stuff. I mean that in a good way. Google them and have a look. If you do, use Google translate so you can read the articles. I have been talking with Thomas Mannweiler from Borossi (Joyner) Germany in recent days and he races Joyner Buggies as does Joyner in the Middle East. Thomas is a very clever man, to get his Buggies Rd legal, he has completed his own homologations, so would not be surprised if he has made his own aftermarket parts. He sent me a photo of him racing in a Rally from Africa which I will post. The problem for a Joyner Trooper is it’s 83cc over the 1000cc cut off all UTV classes I know of, but not a lot of you would realise that the Renegade is only a tiny bit slower than the Trooper on a straight run . Don’t ask me why, maybe Jarrad can answer that. I would expect most of the mechanical upgrades to come out of the USA and as Joyner gets bigger, so too will the demand grow. If Silverbullet and Lenny stick at what they are doing, in a couple of years they will be the go to people for such products. There are some very good upgraded stock Joyner parts coming out. I think maybe some might very well become available soon. Cheers Mike

Jarrad is 100% correct, Joyner are huge in Europe where they have their own type of street homologation street legal Buggies and the same Buggies as you have. Joyner in the UK, Spain, Germany and Greece are well established with good turn over. A lot of people don’t realise just how big Joyner is in Russia. They are in the Middle East, Caribbean, Australia (where there is good turnover) and here in NZ, plus other small markets. The big wheel keeps on turning as does the development of all Joyner Vehicles. Parts will not become unavailable period. The North American counties are too important for Joyner not to have a presence, so hopefully they will be back soon. Cheers Mike.