2scoops

Thanks! You know I was thinking you could almost make what I am doing into a bolt on kit to mass market. My only concern is that Joyners are hand built and all have slightly different angles. Well, either way if it works out to be a sucess I will help anyone on this forum if they want to take it on. I will be able to take out 90% of the guess work. I have been making templates of all of the tabs I have been making with exception to the diff lowering. If I was to do that again I would probably tackle it a little differently. Plus, that is pretty straight forward.

Soooo, did you hear the one about the RZR, Rhino, & Trooper that walked into a bar?

Thanks Rocmoc. I just got off the phone with Nick at Offroad Warehouse. Thanks for the tip! He suggested 150 over 250 in the front & 200 over 350 in the rear. He said that is what they have put on other Troopers. Also, I gotta give a plug to Steve at Makintrax suspension. He offered to send me some used springs to test out until I found the correct rates. Steve knows what he is doing as well. I wasn't intending the shock replacement to be this extensive, but I am trying to squeeze every centimeter out of the suspension. The back has GOT to be easier than the front! There are more pics in the gallery if you haven't found them yet.

Thanks, got them off Ebay almost new--set of 5 for $900.

My opinion on this is beggars can't be choosers. Silverbullet has always been good to me. I have contacted every "reliable" Joyner dealer listed on this Forum for miscelaneous parts. Silverbullet is the only one who offered to resource the part if he didn't have it on hand. And, 90% of the time he came up with it. The others just said no...they're on order. With an already limited supply of Joyner vendors out there I don't want Silverbullet going anywhere. Did he price the controller too high? Maybe, but it was a PRICE, and I don't have to go bid on it...what is up with that anyway? Also, in the end didn't he offer to sell it for $225....shoot that saves me $175 from what I was willing to pay for 12hp! This is the only other product out there for horsepower improvement I can find besides a turbo: http://www.tobefast.com/joyner-1100-trooper-computer-c-63650-p-1-pr-10000958-f-64523.html That's $1099! And, I talked to the sales rep and you still have to tune it, and results differ--no guarantee. Silverbullet has the right to ask whatever he'd like for the--doesn't mean we have to pay it. Does any other dealer offer 5% off for being a member?

One of my goals in lowering my front diff was to hopefully not have to use limiting straps with my 8.5 inch shocks. Unfortunately, lowering my diff did not allow me to achieve this. So, I started on new shock hoops for the front. I cannibalized tubes from the rear dump bed that I removed. The angle was exactly what I needed, and I don't have an 1.5 inch die for my bender. One challenge I ran into was welding the tube--its super thin. I am not a great welder and even with my 110 vold welder it was hard not to burn through. I am only set up for flux core wire. If I was using Co2 it probably would have been much easier. I cut the tube that the upper shock mount bolts to, cutting straight down just inside the original shock mount bolt hole and removed that section of tube. The new shock hoop runs about 2 inches over the top of the tube I just mentioned. One end is welded to the top middle frame and the other is welded to the front bumper tube. then, I tied it back in to the cut section of tube and original shock bracket using 3/16 inch plate steel--it is not going anywhere. I will have to make some holes in the hood to accomodate the new hoops. They will probably stick out about 1 inch. If I don't booger it up, it should look really cool. Now, my shocks will extend right to my max limit--no limiting straps needed. At full compression the shock has about 1/2 inch left on the shaft. My front suspension travel is now just over 12 inches. I can't get anymore with out different CV's. My up travel is limited by the ball joints. After being done, I would bet that my original suspension travel was no more than 8-9 inches stock. In stock form my T2 rested with maybe 1 inch of droop. Now, it is like 4-5 inches of droop at original ride height. Another added benifit is the shock is at a better angle than stock--more inline with the travel of the A-arms. I can't wait to take it to Moab!

Well, I spent a few hours in the garage again. Lowered the front diff to the maximum I felt comfortable. The drain plug is roughly 1/2 inch below the frame (custom skidplate coming). This is probably about 3/4 to 1 inch below stock. And in the end...I gained 1 inch of droop in the suspension. I thought I could gain more. Measuring from eye to eye, taken from them middle of the hole, on the shock mounts my distance is just over 21 inches. Any more than that and the CV's begin to bind. In the end I moved the front diff about 1/2 inch forward. The drive shaft splines are 3 and 3/4 inches long. I have about 2 and 1/4 inch of splines still engaged, so I am comfortable with that. I played around, moving the diff forward as much as 2-3 inches from stock setting, with no noticeable gain in droop. I cut out the tube that the diff originally bolted in order to do so. I replaced it with 1/4 inch steel plate & reused the original mounting bracket. Now I have to tackle the upper shock mounts.

I would like to save some weight. Maybe a "pinned" weight-saving thread should be started, or has it already? I would like to shave 200lbs, but it seems I only keep adding weight with mods. I think I could save a bunch of weight in the seating area.

And I don't doubt you. As we know, each one of our Joyners are like a snowflake--not a one the exact same. I will remeasure. What CV boots are you using...stock? It is the CV boot that is the LIMFAC. Did you need to balance your front drive shaft? I would love to save 15lbs. What about going to a cv front driveline instead of aligning the motor? Could you eliminate the center support bearing then? Thanks for the info.

I talked with Casey at Gorilla Axles. As I presumed, he would need a Joyner Axle to see what it would take to build one. Only then can he give a firm price. Unfortunately they are really busy right now due to Mud Nationals and turn around time would be lengthy. He said to get back with him in April.

Does anyone know the length of the splines on the front driveshaft? Why? I would like to move my front diff forward some & I don't want to run out of driveshaft. I lowered my front diff to increase my droop and to hopefully fit 8.5 inch shocks under the hood without needing limiting straps. After lowering my front diff and cycling the suspension I got a lot of bind due to the fact that as the suspension cycles lower & lower, the front CV's move forward also. This compound angle causes the CV boots to bind badly (once I welded in the diff I was probably a 1/4 inch aft of factory placement). So, I realized if I want to maximize my droop I will need to probaly move the front diff at least 1 inch to 1.5 inches forward of factory placement. I am not sure how Lenny achieved 14.5 inches of travel in the front suspension. When done, I will be lucky to get 12. With 30 inch tires, the top of my tire is able to reach about 1/4 inch past the tube to which the front fender bolts to. I am limited anymore by the ball joints. So, down travel is all I have left to be able to achieve over 12 inches of travel and like I said, my CV boots bind at about 11 to 12 inches due to the compound angle of the shaft. Now, everybody scoffed at the price of the Gorilla Axles, but I am calling them today to see what they can do for me. I estimate my axles bind at about 27 degrees. Crawlin T2 said the Gorilla Axles will do 40 degrees. Add in I will be able to turn sharper as well and.... Please don't forget to answer my driveshaft question if you know the answer. Thanks, Paul P.S. I am taking pictures as I go.

Very impressive! Good work Lenny.

Rocmoc, Please let me know what you end up with on your spring rates. I am looking to purchase springs in the upcoming weeks. I also PM'd flatbed for his suggestions. I need to ask Lenny as well. I was cycling my front suspension this weekend. I found that at full droop, without shocks installed, the CV boot was binding before the actual joint. Another limiting factor was the heim joints. Along with lowering my rear diff, I am going to lower the front. I think that will be just as much work as making new shock mounts in the front, although it is very likely I will end up doing both. Due to the 30" tires I am limited by a couple of inches of up-travel, so I am trying to maximize my droop to get as close to 14.5 inches of total travel as possible.

Rocmoc, Did you ever get out to test you new valving? Better? What spring combination did you finally end up with? Would you change anything? I am very interested because I am going to be installing new Fox 8.5" coilovers in the upcoming month or two, and I need to order springs. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Good news! Parts availability has been the only real concern I have ever had with my T2.

I have never broke an axle. What I am saying is if I had broken one I would absolutely consider an axle that would most likely never break & could handled a tighter turning radius--even @ $550 a pop. You would get all new 4340 CV's and neoprene boots (even though Joyner CV boots never go bad--lol). Another added benifit would be it could handle more suspension travel. I have already decided that when I spot a room for improvement on my trooper I am gonna make it. Currently, I see no need to improve the stock axles at this time.

With the limited availability of Joyner parts I have seen used axles on Ebay for over $200. Finally, dealers are now getting some shipments in. So, I guess the going rate for a T2 axle is $145 and they supply is bountiful.

Once you have the axles for tighter turning, then you have to get another steering box too. If you break an axle it might be worth the upgrade even at $550. The prices I have seen for stock Trooper axles outrageous.

Lenny claims he is getting 14.5 inches of travel per wheel with stock arms & axles. How much are you trying to get? I have been studying many of Lenny's posts on his suspension set up. I believe, don't quote me here, he achieved this by lowering his differential and going to longer shocks. He also repositioned his shocks. Here is some good stuff from Lenny & Rocmoc, but there is more out there: http://www.utvboard.com/topic/1967-shock-idea/page__st__20

Randy, How has the powertrain held up with the turbo? Also, there is already cooling issues in stock form. Are those compounded with a turbo? Thanks, Paul

Oddly enough I was just looking at my alignment last night. I am actually Toe'd out 1". This is how we used to set up 4wheelers when I worked at a shop as a kid, so I thought it may be normal in a SXS. I think my T2 steers as good as it will get (with exception of the turning radius and difficulty of turning the wheel when not moving being my only complaints). But, while I was looking at my T2's overall alignment I found out my left rear wheel is toe'd out 1"--not good. I don't know if it came from the factory like that, or if it got bent from an impact. I will be digging into this.This could explain some of my squirlyness at speed. Also, I have only noticed it getting squirley when I have weight in the back. If I have nothing in back it feels great/very stable. Since Rocmoc suggest toe-in I will try that first.

I wish 18hp/25 ft lb of torque were that simple. I am skeptical. There are a lot of bolt on products out there saying they can manipulate the airflow for increased hp & gas mileage, but they are nothing but gimmicks. However, I did notice I can get 5% off if I purchase @ hubcaps.com! It may be worth a try for the right price. Does anyone have free access to a dyno?

I know I am new, but I like them right where they are at. It were the pinned topics, and the knowledgeable member, that attracted me to the site. Whatever you do don't delete any of the informational stuff on this forum. The simplest thing might be common knowledge to some, but will be helpful to newbies like me.