Axis 500 driveshaft out of transmission.

[Greg Kilgore]

Went for a little ride at night. Best time to have trouble. Was going up a dirt/gravel hill and lost forward motion. Heard a popping/ grinding sound. Looked with a light but couldn't see anything. Could select reverse but same popping/grinding sound. I put the machine in neutral and rolled backwards and turned in a driveway. Put in gear to pull out. Just more popping. Selected 4WD and got the 3-4 miles back home.

 

Once home had wife put in reverse and give a little gas. Discovered the drive shaft was moving in and out of the transmission bout 1/8 to 1/4 inches but not spinning. I posted to a thread already created by another having a similar issue. Then read the next thread and this guy was having the same issue on a 700.

 

So not to hijack a thread decided to make my own.

 

I made a repair request on the axis site for a mobile tech since the closest shop is over 3 hrs away. Will wait for a response before I do any work since this should be covered by the warranty. 

 

Just wondering. If I did have to tackle this myself, is there a easy way to get the driveshaft out without having to take the whole rear diff out?

 

Below is a diagram. I'll not be able to do anything to the machine until the weekend since I'm working out of town. Then only have Saturdays to work on it then. If I have to work on it. What would be the easiest way to get the driveshaft out? I've got tools and know how to use them. Just need a starting point. 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Greg Kilgore]

Reread some of this thread.

And aefron88 has already given the answer. Disconnect the U-joint behind the e-brake. Don't see one on above diagram. But will check when I get back home.

 

I love my job, I love my job, I love my job. If I say it enough I just might start believing it. Hasn't happened in over 8 years but tomorrow is another day.

[aefron88]

If the service tech thing doesnt't come through, the ujoint isnt that bad to remove. If you dont have a pair of snap ring plyers you'll need those. I have not removed a ujoint on one of these yet, but from what i've been told they come apart really easy, no press needed.

The other option may be to remove the driveshaft where it bolts to the rear axle pinion flange. I dont have the same model so not sure if thats feasable based on spacing on your unit.

Once the shaft is out you can confirm, but likely you will need a new driveshaft. The ones ive seen the engine output shaft seems to stasy intact, and just strip the splines on the driveshaft.

[Greg Kilgore]

Just called Texas.  Spoke to someone and was told give it 10 business days for someone to contact me about the issue.

 

Now it's a waiting game. As I stated on the other thread. If they send me parts for me to fix they are getting off cheap cause there not paying shop to fix. Etc. And I didn't buy off them so they can't credit my account. Will it void the warranty if I repair.

 

What little spare time I have is very valuable. And daddy has to have a lot of free stuff to make up for my time. Ya know. Rims, tires, etc.

[aefron88]

It shouldn't void warranty under moss-magnusson act to do your own work.

Yes it sucks, but unfortunately a lot of the shops that are willing to work on these things under warranty are pretty fly-by-night and probably don't do a good job of chasing down the manufacturer reps for parts and reimbursement. That along with hisun not seeming to be particularly proactive either you end up with horror stories of machines sitting in shops for months or years waiting on parts.

Yes it sucks, but luckily in this case it should be pretty quick and straight forward to complete the repair.

I believe on motorcycle doctor there is a pdf of shop book hours for various repairs. Maybe you could submit a claim for labor @ X book hours for the fix and see what happens?

[Greg Kilgore]

I have heard about machine setting in shops for months as well. And I'm kinda impatient also. Bad combination. 

 

I did receive an email stating that they are trying to locate and schedule a mobile tech. That was 4 days ago and haven't heard anything since.

 

I did reply to the email. Stating I can work on the machine and have the ability. If HiSun would supply the parts and disassemble advice as needed. 2 hrs after receiving the initial email. Haven't heard a response about that either. Didn't say anything about compensation for my time. I'm going to give a call Monday and see if I can talk the the lady that sent the email since I have her extension now.

 

I've taken the next 2 weeks off since I've been working out of state, 6 days a week since the middle of Sept. And kinda burnt out. Last week paycheck had 98hr on it. That is with 8hr holiday pay but still that a lot in 6 days. But what am I to do. Go back to hotel and stare at the walls. If I out of town for work, it's to work, and work I shall. But that includes driving 11 hr home on Fridays and 11 hrs back to hotel on Sundays.

 

It's a little chilly outside now. But suppose to warm up to the 50s first part of the week. So at least I can take a look at what will be needed to tackle this issue and get this thing apart. I may be able to just a strap and pull the driveshaft back into the cup but will have to wait and see. I'll let ya know. 

 

Thanks for the replay and advise. I'll post pics as I can.

[aefron88]

I don't think pulling the driveshaft back together is going to fix anything, more than likely the splines on the engine end of the shaft are toast, which will require replacement of the shaft. This is likely going to require two trips by the mobile tech, one to remove and a second once the new shaft arrives.

I would just go ahead and remove it, and see what you see, and go from there as far as warranty, and repair options based in what you see.

[Greg Kilgore]

Well it got warm today. I got boarded also.

Took about 3 hours and this is what I found.

Transmission side. Notice some of the splines laying there. And chunks missing at the bottom.

 

Drive shaft transmission side.

 

What did they make this out of pot metal, aluminum,  and the axle says it for a 700. The cab I have on the machine says 700 also. And paperwork says 500. Think most parts are interchangeable.  

Still haven't heard back from Texas since I offered to fix the machine if they would send parts. But I went on Amazon and found this.

 

Says it should be here Nov 30th or so. Staying out of town so much I racked up a lot of hotel points. Used points to buy Amazon gift cards. So basically it's free.

Part numbers don't match BUT I can always return if it doesn't work. And at least I can see a faint light at the end.

 

It was a PITA to get that far. 

1 Take wiring loose for bed lights.

2.Remove bed. Take heat shield under bed off.

3. Take exhaust hangers loose. Disconnect all parts of the exhaust. Disconnect exhaust from engine also.

4. Take heat shield off that protects the rear diff.

5. Take e-brake off.

6. Take bolts that hold rear diff out and one rear diff mount.

7. Wiggle and jiggle and a few 4-letter words and finally got drive line out.

8. Still have to take the cup out of transmission. Will wait for new parts do there's no chance of contaminants getting in the trans.

Will prob have to take the rotor for the e-brake off the boss but will wait and see.

I also have 65ish hours on the machine. And the way the valves sit. Now would be a good time to adjust them also. Really can't start the machine since the manifold is now off the head. 

I'll keep everyone informed.

[aefron88]

Looks like you got your issue figured out.

There's no u-joint in the rear driveline of the 500? My 400 has a u-joint you can remove the pop the whole shaft out without having to dissasemble half the rear end.

And yeah may as well do the valve lash while you've got everything out of the way.

[Greg Kilgore]

It took about 3 days 2-3 hours per day. To get the machine back together. Did not adjust valve lashing. Didn't want to take tank out so I could make sure I had top dead center. Didn't want to stick anything into spark plug hole to determine TDC. So I just put the valve and blower covers back on. And did an oil change.

Anyway got the machine completely put back together 12/1. Wife and I went for a few rides before I had to leave town for work.

Now the good stuff.

On 11/23, same day I took it apart, I replied to the one and only email from hisun support again. Sent them the pics and asked for replacement parts

On 12/8 the mobile tech finally called. Asked for the year and size. I was kinda a smart as and told him he had the workorder from hisun. That should have had the year, model, and serial number on it. He said it was there but he wanted to verify so he could order parts for hisun to send me. (Meaning he could charge hisun for a service call that he "verified" the info. Don't know just guessing.) The tech said a new seal wasn't necessary unless old one was leaking. HA! But I asked that one be sent just in case I needed it. Tech added that the seal wasn't easy to put back in cause of the location. Told him I think I should be able to get it. Tech said OK he'd order parts (engine cup, drive shaft, spring, and seal) and have hisun send them to me. To put a coat of grease on splines when putting back together. 

I didn't tell the tech I already had the repairs completed and the machine back together. I have another set just in case this ever happens again.

Now if I had waited for the tech to schedule an actual visit, take the machine apart, then order parts, then schedule revisit to assemble. It would probably be February or later before the machine would be back together. BUT I have to say this much. Hisun did find and schedule a mobile tech to resolve the issue. And his number was Indiana area code. At lease 4 hours to the Indiana state line.

Maybe if I had requested that I do the work and the replacement parts during my initial email. I would have been down so long. So I'll take part of the blame for the machine being down as long as it was. But hind site is 20/20 as they say.

 

I just want to know how the damage was done in the first place. The way everything fits together. The only way for the drive line to slip the way it did. Either the engine or the differential has to move. And all bolts holding both in were there and tight. Also there is no flex in the frame around that area. Just don't know how that damage could happen. The tech did say from looking at the pics I sent. Looked like a circle clip was missing from the messed up spline end of the driveshaft. I didn't take any pics of the new part before I stuck it in. But I still have the bad one. (I'm a packrat.) So I guess I could compare rhe old one with the new one that is on its way here. 

Thoughts? Comments?

[Greg Kilgore]

Also wanted to mention this. Putting the exhaust back together and back on. Cause to get it out, I had to disassembly all 3 pieces and remove sections at a time.

When I reassembled and got the machine started. It was quieter than before. So for anyone that wants to try to make their machine a little more quiet. Try to tighten all nuts and bolts dealing with the exhaust. Don't use gorilla strength. Just snug a little. You don't want to break a stud or bolt or strip a nut/bolt. And a little penetrating fluid. Sprayed for a few days (each day) before the adjustments are made wouldn't hurt. And most important, don't blame me if something goes wrong.

[Greg Kilgore]

Well on 12/15 or so, I received a package from HiSun. Got the seal and engine cup for the axle and the rear cup that the parking brake rotor attaches to. But not the axle itself. Sent the mobile tech a text message inquiring about missing parts. Reply was he would contact hisun to see it they were on back order. Nothing since.

 

I'll keep ya posted when I receive all parts.

[aefron88]

Hey Greg,

I'll be interested to hear what the actual root cause of the failure is. My assumption was weak splines + torque. It could be the splines are not proper spec metal or not heat treated properly. I've seen a couple posts of the exact same failure now. Based on the sizing I wouldnt expect any issues as these things don't make that much horsepower.

Either way good luck, and keep us posted.

[Greg Kilgore]

Aefron88,

I am wondering the same thing. Since there is not a U-joint. The drive shaft goes straight from the engine to the rear differential. There is a 1" square tube cage/frame(?) built around the engine and differential. That shouldn't bend or flex.

To take the drive shaft out. Either the engine has to be moved forward or the differential has to move back. I didn't find any loose or missing bolts on the engine side or the differential side.

The way the splines on the drive shaft sit in the cups. They go in about 2" and bottom out. I should have measured the length of the old drive shaft and the new one I put in. To see if there was a difference. I still haven't received the drive shaft the mobile tech was supposed to have ordered. And he hasn't followed up when he said he would inquire about it being on back order.

The one I installed from Amazon fit perfectly and I have the machine back operational. Just wanting the parts in the off chance it happens again.

As I said I was going up a dirt/gravel road that a dozer had made wash board type depressions with its tracks. Was moving about 20MPH with me and the wife. I'm a good 280lb. Wife well let's just say petite husky 😂 and say there was 400 to 430 lbs in the cab. The frame shouldn't have flexed but may have and with the torque of trying to haul our big behinds up the hill of wash board tread tracks. May have flexed enough to cause the splines to slip.

I still have the old parts. I may try to do some kind of hardness test. Could try to "X" the side of the frame to reinforce just incase the frame did flex. Would have to take to a weld shop to get that done. I've got a Flux wire mig welder, but no where near enough experience to weld something like that. I'd have to nut and bolt it together. But that would definitely cause a weak spots.

Just like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. The world may never know. The reason the splines stripped the way they did.