Intake Manifold, Bottoms UP

[Kinarfi]

I got a few photos to post, but the camera is down stairs and it will wait till tomorrow. I flipped the manifold, cleaned every thing, put it back together, replaced the starter, did a little rewiring and disassembled the IAC, probably more than I should, got photos of it also, but I got back together and I still couldn't get it to collapse, so I installed it but didn't tighten the screws down, just snugged them, turned the key on, let it cycle, turned key off, re-snug the screws, repeat until screws were tight, looked it all over again and tried to start it. The new starter sounded way different, faster maybe, but different, but it didn't start by itself, recycled, stepped on clutch, still didn't start by it self so I added some throttle and it almost started, recycled and tried starter twice with no throttle, did it again with a little throttle and it started, yay!!! I'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens, I did take it for a ride and the intake noise was different too.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

I got a few photos to post, but the camera is down stairs and it will wait till tomorrow. I flipped the manifold, cleaned every thing, put it back together, replaced the starter, did a little rewiring and disassembled the IAC, probably more than I should, got photos of it also, but I got back together and I still couldn't get it to collapse, so I installed it but didn't tighten the screws down, just snugged them, turned the key on, let it cycle, turned key off, re-snug the screws, repeat until screws were tight, looked it all over again and tried to start it. The new starter sounded way different, faster maybe, but different, but it didn't start by itself, recycled, stepped on clutch, still didn't start by it self so I added some throttle and it almost started, recycled and tried starter twice with no throttle, did it again with a little throttle and it started, yay!!! I'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens, I did take it for a ride and the intake noise was different too.

Kinarfi

When you flip the intake up, you also move the intake side of it to the front side putting it much closer to the air filter. As a result you have eliminated a lot of muffler effect of all that flex rubber tubing and some length to the airfilter. My supercharger makes enough noise through the air filter that I'm thinkng of ways to muffler the sound. On your starting, thinking out loud, if the computer thinks that the the IAC is working, but not, and opens it, it thinks, then adds a little fuel, a rich mixture for cold start, then the engine doesn't get enough oxygen to provide a volitale air fuel ratio. Thus it doesn't start. You open the throttle a bit and it makes up for a possible bad IAC. Keep in mind that the computer knows just how much oxygen to give it but when you do it by the throttle yourself, you coud be either giving it too much or too little. An explosive mixture is in between so you would have to get the throttle close to just right. Try using the throttle idle set screw to pre set the throttle butterfly and try starting without giving it any throttle peddle. Try different positions, starting out with just a little and moving more open. Adjust it in until you bearly see the throttle shaft begin to move just a bit and work from there. Also when we were together and you started your Trooper, it always turned over sluggishly compaired to mine. I would try a good fully charged battery out of your Suburban but don't jump it but hook it in directly. The stock battery will not put out the starting power that a bigger battery will. Also the battery connectors on the Trooper are poor and should be replaced. Their just small and poor quality. The guy in Cottonwood Arizona who makes the turbocharger kits told me that he changes the battery wiring on all the units he works on because otherwise some of them seem to have a starting problem. Mine was not starting like it did when I first bought it. It later would always take a bit of cranking. Not a lot but some. Since I installed a Optima marine battery, It starts immediately. The stock battery is a standard design and the jarring of the Trooper is very destrictuve to it. It vibrates the interior flat plates which then slowly break down where in a car they do OK because of the lack of all the jarring. On the other hand the Optima uses spiro wound plates which are structurally much more resistant to the jarring making the battery the choice of most off road racers. Your battey could just be getting old already. When you try a bigger fresh battery, do not have the old battery in the circuit sucking up some of the current. Again just thinking out loud with some thoughts to try.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

I got a few photos to post, but the camera is down stairs and it will wait till tomorrow. I flipped the manifold, cleaned every thing, put it back together, replaced the starter, did a little rewiring and disassembled the IAC, probably more than I should, got photos of it also, but I got back together and I still couldn't get it to collapse, so I installed it but didn't tighten the screws down, just snugged them, turned the key on, let it cycle, turned key off, re-snug the screws, repeat until screws were tight, looked it all over again and tried to start it. The new starter sounded way different, faster maybe, but different, but it didn't start by itself, recycled, stepped on clutch, still didn't start by it self so I added some throttle and it almost started, recycled and tried starter twice with no throttle, did it again with a little throttle and it started, yay!!! I'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens, I did take it for a ride and the intake noise was different too.

Kinarfi

Here's my photos,

About the way the ECU and the IAC work, IMHO, is that the ECU learns where everything is, either at start up or shut down, and remembers, then when you start up, it positions the IAC and and adjusts the amount of fuel accordingly. If mine doesn't work properly today, I'll have to check all the connections because I believe the IAC is working properly and the ECU is may not be getting the information it needs to do it's job correctly.

So far, I really like this change, I keeps stuff up high where it should get so dirty with oil leaks for the shock or engine and it's away for the dirt and water (MUD) splashed by the wheels.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Here's my photos,

About the way the ECU and the IAC work, IMHO, is that the ECU learns where everything is, either at start up or shut down, and remembers, then when you start up, it positions the IAC and and adjusts the amount of fuel accordingly. If mine doesn't work properly today, I'll have to check all the connections because I believe the IAC is working properly and the ECU is may not be getting the information it needs to do it's job correctly.

So far, I really like this change, I keeps stuff up high where it should get so dirty with oil leaks for the shock or engine and it's away for the dirt and water (MUD) splashed by the wheels.

Kinarfi

Took couple more photos today of my modification to the intake system that has to do with my starting problem which hasn't gone away yet!!

First the photos, Notice it is all the original parts & pieces except for the K&N air filter.

Now, what I have done for the for my starting problem is I pulled the computer and checked the inputs for the TMAP, the TPS, the Eng. Coolant Temperature Sensor, both O2 sensors, looked at all the connectors, put silicone grease on a couple of plugs, changed my snorkel set up and put it all back together and tried to start it, same old crap. I think I'll give up on the easy first start, after the first start, it seems good. Maybe it'll fix itself somehow after driving it for a while. I can hope anyway.

Kinarfi

[ksimpsy]

Hey Kinarfi, that looks good i had considered flipping the intake back when i got my unit new just never did it. did you flip the throttle body or was it not possible?

[Kinarfi]

Hey Kinarfi, that looks good i had considered flipping the intake back when i got my unit new just never did it. did you flip the throttle body or was it not possible?

Don't see the need to change the throttle body and I think it would be difficult because of the throttle cable set up. I think the bolt pattern is a square, so the body can be put any way you want, but the throttle cable fixed point would have to be redone. It was actually pretty easy to do. I drilled tree holes in the steel part and made a cork/rubber gasket gasket and I think that should seal it. I'll take another photo of the bolt up and post it for you. I really like it this way, so far.

kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Hey Kinarfi, that looks good i had considered flipping the intake back when i got my unit new just never did it. did you flip the throttle body or was it not possible?

Kimpsy, here's a few more photos of the manifold flip. Start with this one and work you way to the end.

Kinarfi

[ksimpsy]

Kimpsy, here's a few more photos of the manifold flip. Start with this one and work you way to the end.

Kinarfi

I see you flipped the aluminum manifold but not the chrome tubes. did you look at flipping the whole thing back at the head? that is where i was looking at doing the flip and it seemd to me that the bolt pattern was reversible on the head but i could be wrong i never took it apart to try it.

thanks for the pics.

[rocmoc]

ksimpsy, If the chrome tubes are same, nothing to gain but extra work and the need of another gasket.

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

[Kinarfi]

I decided to move all the threads about turning the manifold upside down to here.

One more comment/caution about doing this is that if the studs come out while you're removing the chrome part, the lower center one on mine let antifreeze out, so I had to siphon some of the antifreeze out. Also, all of the studs had 3 - 5 washers under the nuts so I threaded the studs, either in place or in the vice and did away with the washers. I've driven my trooper a couple of time with this set up and it seems great. get all the sensors up out of the dirty area.

Kinarfi

Did it improve your starting problem?

uncertain; I got in it yesterday and stepped on the clutch, turned the key on and let it cycle completely, hit the starter and lit right up, Here's the catch, I have a hand throttle and a foot throttle and the hand throttle holds it's position and it may have been holding the butterfly just cracked and since it started, I drove it. And since the problem is first start from cold and now it was warm, I'll have to watch it. The new starter has definitely helped, seems to spin faster. Did you know that we have a geared (planetary) starter?

moved the quoted from deleted thread

[Kinarfi]

Did it improve your starting problem?

I don't think so still having a problem, but once started and warmed the problems gone for the rest of the day. The new starter did help, though. Maybe the ECU thinks the engine is already warm so it doesn't give me a rich enough mix at start up. Need to monitor the temp signal to the ECU one of these days, as soon as I figure out where the temp sensor is, I think it's forward of the knock sensor, can anyone confirm this?

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

I don't think so still having a problem, but once started and warmed the problems gone for the rest of the day. The new starter did help, though. Maybe the ECU thinks the engine is already warm so it doesn't give me a rich enough mix at start up. Need to monitor the temp signal to the ECU one of these days, as soon as I figure out where the temp sensor is, I think it's forward of the knock sensor, can anyone confirm this?

Kinarfi

Temp sensor screws into the front of the head. There is also another one at the rear right side of the radiator. I don't think the one on the radiator is the one you want. It probaly goes to the temp gauge on the dash.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Upped the fuel pressure back up to 43.5 PSI, 300 kPa as on page 135 #7 of the 1100trooperT2-T4_owners_manual and still having problems with first start of the day.

Just another comment.

Kinarfi

[mlg]

Hi to everyone ,and happy thanksgiving. I have a question about flipping the intake on my trooper .Are you able to reuse the intake gaskets? Or did you fabricate your own gaskets or order news ones .

[rocmoc]

You would you the gasket the same way as non-flipped. SAME GASKET

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Hi to everyone ,and happy thanksgiving. I have a question about flipping the intake on my trooper .Are you able to reuse the intake gaskets? Or did you fabricate your own gaskets or order news ones .

My gasket was messed up so I got some gasket material from my local auto parts dealer and made my own. Easy to do, just lay the manifold over it and trace it out. Then cut it out and spring clamp it back in place and use a ball peen hammer to carefully tap out the inside holes by tapping around the hole edge and shearing the gasket. Easy to get a great fit. Life is a whole lot easier with the manifold flipped. You can get at the throttle body and all it's atachment parts which are all but impossible to get at stock.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

My gasket was messed up so I got some gasket material from my local auto parts dealer and made my own. Easy to do, just lay the manifold over it and trace it out. Then cut it out and spring clamp it back in place and use a ball peen hammer to carefully tap out the inside holes by tapping around the hole edge and shearing the gasket. Easy to get a great fit. Life is a whole lot easier with the manifold flipped. You can get at the throttle body and all it's atachment parts which are all but impossible to get at stock.

Lenny

Other then easier to get to everything is there any other advantage?

[Guest Lenny]

Other then easier to get to everything is there any other advantage?

Shortening the intake length from the air filter to the throttle body is going to allow the engine to breath better. If you do the switch, then you should clean up the matching of the ports while your at it. It's fairly easy to do especially when you have the parts out anyway. They are really poorly matched and cleanup could give maybe another 5-8 hp.

Lenny

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Hi to everyone ,and happy thanksgiving. I have a question about flipping the intake on my trooper .Are you able to reuse the intake gaskets? Or did you fabricate your own gaskets or order news ones .

In my case, I made a new one out of rubberized cork gasket material, also drilled on extra hole and put a 1/4-20 bolt and nut in the middle of the manifold. Take a look at the whole series of photos and you'll see the new gasket material and the nut and bolt, I did not put the two outside bolts in, it would take some special brackets to do that. In case your not familiar with Webshots, above and to the right of the photo is a thumbnail of the next and previous picture, click on next to see the rest of them one at a time or find the slide show button under the photo.

Kinarfi

[mlg]

Thanks for the info ,flipping the intake to reduce filter to throttle body length and to gain room in front of the radiator . Plan on installing oil cooler in front of radiator .A little worried about intake gasket availability and glad to here most have made there own gasket