Final Dyno work done, finally

[Guest Lenny]

Well I felt pretty good about the first guy that did the dyno tuning on my trooper. After all, he knew more then I did and he did get more horse power and torque. Little did I know until today that there were others that knew much more then he did. Now I feel double dumb. Anyway here is what I ended up with. We limited the RPMs to 5700. The horsepower was still climbing at this point without showing any sign yet of beginnig to decrease it's rate of climb. However, that is where the chart ended. Really don't know where it would actually peak but I don't really care anymore. At 5700 RPMs the horse power was an outstanding 121.2hp at the rear axels. This was done on a DynaPack dyno which hooks directly to the rear axels after removing the wheels. Wow, didn't expect that. Guess when I was told this guy (Shawn Church of Church Automotive in California) was one of the top tuners in the country, I wasn't being lied to. He did it in half the time too. The torque is now also an astonishing 120.3 lb/ft. The other dyno guy (Desert Preformance in Boulder, NV) only got about 72 hp and 68 lb/ft of torque. This is about where it was at when Rocmoc drove it. Just got home and It's getting late so will wait till tomorrow to unload and drive it. Gosh, I putting the stock engine hp out at about 3000 rpms and I'm above 110 lb/ft of torque all the way from 3000 rpms on up 5700. I'll report tomorrow after my first ride. Might not be able to sleep tonight. Wife said that I'm acting like 14 year old that saw a naked woman for the first time. She may be right.

Lenny

[showa]

Heh, sounds like a beast..... I guess I better get busy and swap in a Subaru WRX engine!!!

Yeah, right, like I could do that .... Lol

Can't wait to see it run Lenny...

[Guest Lenny]

Still won't be the fastest guy out there. Shawn said that he has tuned RZRs to between 175 and 200 hp. But, this is with 30 pounds of boost and special fuels. I'm only using 12-1/2 pounds of boost. Seems my lower compression is now just right for this boost. I did increase my boost up a bit by making a smaller pulley for the supercharger. This was to make up for over machining my pistons and ending up with too low of compression which showed up after adding an aftercooler.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

What do you contribute to the making the greatest hp gain? Same for torque gain? When will your shop open for aftermarket upgrades and parts?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

The main thing is going to be the supercharger which really helped the torque. But it still all has to worktogether. Here is what I have done so far for preformance.

Added supercharger.

Installed a Silverbullet torque cam. (this actually hurt my top end some for the sake of low end torque which is fine with me)

Went to a better matched spark plug.

Matched all intake and exhaust ports.

Lowered the compression to about 7:1 (can't remember for sure without looking up). This was required to run the suercharger with normal pump premium gas.

Flipped the intake plentum to the top side.

Added an aftercooler to cool the output coming from the supercharger. This was also required to help be able to run pump gas.

Speeded up the supercharger to get 12-1/2 pounds of boost by making a smaller pulley for it.

Built a larger throttle body (52mm where as stock is about 38mm).

Switched to the Megasquirt computer which allowed me full control to tune for maximum power and torque.

Switched to an Accel high voltage coil and premimun Napa ignition wires. Thanks to Lowgear for the suggestion to go to better wires.

Switched to larger radiator to keep it all cooled down.

I could still go to a high preformance exhaust system but won't. Don't need anymore power. Also could probably get to maybe 130 to 135 Hp just by increasing the rev limiter from 5700 to say 6700, but won't. Shawn also kept things a bit on the rich side just to stay conservative and he also didn't advance the spark as far as he could have again to stay a bit conservative. This would have produces more power within the same 5700 rpm limit. At this point, it's someones elses turn to force this engine farther to see where it blows. Just the fact that it seems to handle the 120 hp fine has got me quite impressed with this little engines strength. We have all pretty much felt that the engine was a pretty decent one for strength.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Len, can you expand on the larger throttle body? We are talking about the Massflow Meter, right? What did you do? Would the stock engine benifit from more fuel at the Massflow meter? I don't understand the benifit of the fuel controller if you can't shove it thu the MassFlow meter. With a larger throttle body, I do see it.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

The Trooper uses a mass density system for determining the amount of air entering the engine. This system uses sensors to measure the temperature and pressure of the air in the intake and calculates the actual quanity of air going to the engine using those two values. My intake setup has the air filter first as normal then comes the supercharger followed by the aftercooler and then the throttle body. Thus in my case it wants to measure both temperature and pressure after the supercharger and aftercooler and also after the throttle body. If the throttle is closed then the pressure before the throttle body will be higher because of the boosting or just the atmospheric pressure outside but most of that pressure will be restricted from getting to the intake plentum and its the air in the plentum that the engine is drawing from so I want to measure it there. The stock Trooper for simular reasons measures it after the throttle body too. Mass air flow uses a different approach where it measures air by either a flap in the airflow that bends or rotates as air passes it or a heated wire that senses the temperature drop in the wire based on the combined effect of the density and temperature of the air passing it. The flap is actually a way to weigh the air comming in. The colder the air or the higher its pressure, the more dense it is and thus the harder it can push on the flap. A simular thing happens when denser air which is based on pressure and temperature passes a heated wire. But in this case, the denser the air the more it can cool down the heated wire. The computer calculates the air mass by reading the differance between the heaterd wire and the cooler wire.

I went to a larger throttlle body to match the area of the output of the supercharger. Didn't want to restrict it in anyway. There is a possibility that it would preform the same with a smaller throttle body. One side effect of a larger throttle body is that throttling off idle is much more sensitive because a larger opening occurs quickly. I camed my throttle pulley to offset this. The fuel never sees the this part of the system. It is injected into the intake ports in the cylinder head as you know. The idea being that the more air you can get in the cylinders, the more fuel you can inject, thus more power. My super charger does just that and the larger throttle body helps assure that most of it's getting to the engine. The Trooper engine is tuned for ecology considerations which means it runs at close to stoichiometric which is aprox. 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel, by weight. Stoichiometric allows the lowest emmisions. However the best power is produced around a ratio of 11.5 to 12.5 to 1. In the case of the fuel controller, the extra power comes from being able to lower the air to fuel ratio without having to increase airflow, thus more power. This power shows up a lot as extra torque. If you match and clean up your intake and exhaust ports which is fairly easy to do, you get more air thru and thus you can add even more fuel. This is one of the first and very effective and very inexpensive way to increase power that I would do. In my case, I also cleaned up the ports in the head itself all the way to the valves. Keep in mind that the more laminar the air flow the more air gets thru. Kind of like riding your motorcycle thru the intake system. You hit a mis-aligned port, it's like having to go up over a burm, it slows you down. When you get to the head, if the curves going to the valves arn't smooth and flowing, it slows you down.

Might want to move this to the pinned technical articles topic.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Excellent response Len. Thanks!!!!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[2scoops]

Well I felt pretty good about the first guy that did the dyno tuning on my trooper. After all, he knew more then I did and he did get more horse power and torque. Little did I know until today that there were others that knew much more then he did. Now I feel double dumb. Anyway here is what I ended up with. We limited the RPMs to 5700. The horsepower was still climbing at this point without showing any sign yet of beginnig to decrease it's rate of climb. However, that is where the chart ended. Really don't know where it would actually peak but I don't really care anymore. At 5700 RPMs the horse power was an outstanding 121.2hp at the rear axels. This was done on a DynaPack dyno which hooks directly to the rear axels after removing the wheels. Wow, didn't expect that. Guess when I was told this guy (Shawn Church of Church Automotive in California) was one of the top tuners in the country, I wasn't being lied to. He did it in half the time too. The torque is now also an astonishing 120.3 lb/ft. The other dyno guy (Desert Preformance in Boulder, NV) only got about 72 hp and 68 lb/ft of torque. This is about where it was at when Rocmoc drove it. Just got home and It's getting late so will wait till tomorrow to unload and drive it. Gosh, I putting the stock engine hp out at about 3000 rpms and I'm above 110 lb/ft of torque all the way from 3000 rpms on up 5700. I'll report tomorrow after my first ride. Might not be able to sleep tonight. Wife said that I'm acting like 14 year old that saw a naked woman for the first time. She may be right.

Lenny

I am damn jealous. Glad to see all your hard work paid off.

If I recall right your previous posts said you were running at 5-6psi. So you essentially doubled it? I don't think Silverbullets design will supply enough fuel for that much pressure. We would need an aftermarket fuel pump and injectors

[Guest Lenny]

I am damn jealous. Glad to see all your hard work paid off.

If I recall right your previous posts said you were running at 5-6psi. So you essentially doubled it? I don't think Silverbullets design will supply enough fuel for that much pressure. We would need an aftermarket fuel pump and injectors

Actually I was getting about 8 or 9 so and that is what Silverbullet will be producing and you put the after cooler with it otherwise it will produce about 10 psi boost. Bigger inectors may or may not be reqired on his setup. I'm sure he will have it working correctly before he makes it available.

Lenny

[Jason]

Hey guys im new to the joyner world i acualy just found out about them a couple weeks ago, im buying a 2008 trooper t2 in a week and iv been doing alot of research on them and they seem amazing exept for the minor flaws and some major ones but it doesnt matter what you buy there will always be a leamon in every brand. the guy said he fixed all the flaws that he has had with his so im hoping that is the case cause i will be waiting for one of the super charger kits to be avalible. iv been reading lots of the turbos and super chargers and i feel like the super charger will be more sutible for me. i live in the rockies and there is alot of hills to climb.do you guys have an idea on the price the kit will be? im paying $7000 for the joyner so even if its under $4000 it will still be less then buying a used rzr 800 there going for at least $12000 up here. Thats what appeals to me the most is the affordability of these machines.

[Kinarfi]

Welcome Jason,

What part of the Rockies are you in, Please fill out your profile so we can get to know you better,unless it's in really good shape, 7000 seam a little steep IMHO

Kinarfi

[Jason]

West rockies in alberta, i didnt think it is to expensive everything up here is over priced compared to the states, you guys are lucky. Iv been looking around for a side by side for a decent price, and i came across a trooper t2 and was in awe how sweetit looked and the price on it. It is impossible to find a turbo or supercharged side by side for under $17000 up here. Another thing the pulls me towards a trooper t2 is the car engine i feel like it would last way longer then a v-twin and im looking for something to last me a while. But back to my question about the supercharger kit,anyone know when it will be availible?

[rocmoc]

Welcome. I have many Canadian friends and have heard from them about the prices being higher North of the Border. My recommendation is wait before you add a supercharger or turbo, they are most helpful in the sand. You will be suprised how well the Trooper climbs in EVERYTHING else. For where you are, spend the extra $ on an enclosed cab. Also one caution because of where you are, you will want to reseal/tape connectors on the wiring harness so moisture does not get at the connectors. The connector seals are not good, IMHO! OR only use it when it is dry and no stream crossings.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

Also, if it you want it to last and it does not have a snorkel, put one on and get rid of the stock air filter, immediately!!!!!!!

Kinarfi

[Jason]

yah i think i will hold up on the super charger this season and just ride it as is and get a good feel for it and make minor mods to it and maybe this winter if i am not happy with the power install a super charger. thx for the heads up on the eletrical i will go through it with a fine tooth comb and try and make it as water tight as i can since there is alot of creek and river crossings up here. thx for the heads up rocmoc

looking at the pics he has sent me on it it already has been snorkeled between the two seats about head level. thx for the heads up kinarfi. any thing else i should be looking for on it when i go look at it and take it for a drive?

[Jason]

i put some pictures up in the gallery of the trooper t2 let me know what you think of it? if i should get it or hold out and wait for another one? looks like it has a bunch of mods done to it and they arnt very common up here so not sure how long it i find another one to buy. thx

[rocmoc]

Interesting what was done with the diamond plate. Sure will protect the fenders. A upgrade I did was change out the belts to camlock Crow belts. I just don't like the lever lock all tho they are suppose to be better in the sand. I would ask for a written copy of the upgrades/mods. Good luck!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

Great Job Lenny.

I have a clean slate to work on this Trooper for max. performance.I hope you can give us some advice when we need it.We will dyno it in a few weeks stock.

Thanks

Rick

[Guest Lenny]

Thanks to everyone and will be glad to help you Rick where ever I can.

Lenny