Oil change Buck 450

[Michelle Holmes]

Driving down road shut down.  Went to do oil change and very little oil coming from drain plug.  Had to siphon from dipstick area.  Now machine is parked.HELP

[T-boss 410]

Have you tried to start it since the oil change?

[Travis]

Most likely a low oil sensor saved your engine. If you know the unit is Full of oil, no harm in trying to restart it.

[TapBoss]

How much oil did you end up getting out of it?  Or, how much oil did it take to fill back up?

[Michelle Holmes]

On the original oil change got about 1.5 quarts.  When adding oil I could only put in 1 quart.  Thought I run down  road and recheck.  When I went to drain again nothing came out but the fill dipstick area had oil and I was able to syringe the quart out.  Very confusing and frustrating.

[TapBoss]

Should take 2 quarts.  Did you have the dipstick out or filter off when draining?   I would take out the drain plug again and make sure nothing is blocking it from draining (wear gloves for slivers.)  There was a thread on here recently where parts had broke loose.  If clean you can just refill with this oil.

 

[T-boss 410]

Be sure to use oil that's for a wet clutch system, assuming it has that.

[Michelle Holmes]

Thanks, using oil for wet clutch.  Have it drained just picked up more oil, will see what happens in am.

[Bill Hughes]

Are you properly checking the oil level on the dipstick? The level is checked with the dipstick unscrewed and just placed on top of the threads. If you screw in the dipstick you'll get a full indication but actually be low on oil. 

DO NOT OVERFILL.   Whatever amount your drained out at the change should have been the amount you replaced. 

DO NOT OVERFILL.    Over filling will damage your engine. 

Make sure you check the level properly. 

[Michelle Holmes]

Added 1 qt, tried starting sounded like it wanted to start but battery not fully charged.

[Michelle Holmes]

I’ll add a little more today and hopefully will turn over.

[Bill Hughes]

4 hours ago, Michelle Holmes said:

I’ll add a little more today and hopefully will turn over.

DO NOT OVERFILL.    Over filling WILL damage your engine.  Take heed. 

[Michelle Holmes]

Yes I am thanks

[RDK]

I just bought a Massimo Buck 450 and need to do the first oil change and I am getting conflicting information on certain things. If I am seeing the owner's manual correctly it says the oil capacity is 1.48qts so, is it that or 2qts also if I read it right the 450 has no oil filter but has a screen on the drain plug. I need to do the oil change but want to get it right!

[Bill Hughes]

23 hours ago, RDK said:

I just bought a Massimo Buck 450 and need to do the first oil change and I am getting conflicting information on certain things. If I am seeing the owner's manual correctly it says the oil capacity is 1.48qts so, is it that or 2qts also if I read it right the 450 has no oil filter but has a screen on the drain plug. I need to do the oil change but want to get it right!

The best way to change the oil is to use an oil extraction pump and pump the oil out of the fill tube with the engine warm (not hot). Fill with new oil in the amount you extracted then check the level and top off if needed. This will be close to 1.5 Quarts. When used properly the extraction pump will remove all but a teaspoon of the old oil (not enough to worry about. 

Done in 5 minutes and no mess. Even Mercedes and BMW do it this way these days. No real need to clean the screen and no need to worry with the sealing ring on the plug. If you had chucks of metal big enough for the screen to catch, you have much bigger problems than an oil change. 

[Joe Breaux]

not a fan of the quicky lube syphon method.. its fast and easy and saves time for  Quick Oil Change shops but I seriously doubt it removes all  the sludge in the bottom of the pan completely. or the metallic debris on mag plugs . The drain is the lowest point and everything will come out if engine is hot and you can clean the plug for fresh use. .  Trans shops now use similar methods of  quickie replacing fluid by machine with fresh fluid.. But you still have your old dirty filter inside trans and whatever sludge and debris are in the bottom of the pan.  . 

[T-boss 410]

Gotta agree. I can't see how a siphon pump will extract everything. Drain and fill is the best method.

[Joe Breaux]

yep. trust the science as libs say.......Its GRAVITY!  cant deny it   Hows yours running?  my mix breed Massimo still going strong. 

[T-boss 410]

Still running good. I still have the issue with starting. Just takes a few hits with the key to get it to turn over and start. It doesn't get run every day, though. Maybe that's the issue?

[Bill Hughes]

It's not important to get every drop of oil out of the engine during oil changes. You won't anyway regardless of method. That's why most modern brands use the quick method with oil extraction pumps. That will get all but an ounce of oil. If you got sludge in the engine oil, you have bigger problems than an oil change will fix. If you change your oil every six months and haven't abused the engine or have engine issues the extracted oil should be pretty clean. You're changing oil because it wears out and ages not because it gets dirty. 

[Joe Breaux]

4 hours ago, Bill Hughes said:

It's not important to get every drop of oil out of the engine during oil changes. You won't anyway regardless of method. That's why most modern brands use the quick method with oil extraction pumps. That will get all but an ounce of oil. If you got sludge in the engine oil, you have bigger problems than an oil change will fix. If you change your oil every six months and haven't abused the engine or have engine issues the extracted oil should be pretty clean. You're changing oil because it wears out and ages not because it gets dirty. 

I completely disagree.. You change oil BECAUSE it gets dirty and can no longer hold deposits in suspension.. Oil does not wear out in 3000 miles .   heres a thought from a real  expert..........." Does oil wrar out?  

..........oil  goes "bad" from two things:

1. The long chains get broken down due to wear. But ask any tribologist with an ounce of morals, and they will tell you that modern engine oil is sufficient to last MANY thousands of miles, perhaps 10-20K or more . (I get that you speak hours - I'm too lazy to translate that to knots.) And that's good old dinosaur juice. Modern synthetic compounds have wonderful properties, and might last twice as long as the organic stuff. In fact, with the exception of point #2, the right synthetic might last 50,000 -60,000 miles. (x 0.868976 knots)

2. and you say...BUT BUT BUT.... Oil gets dirty. Little particles of soot and combustion products and small insects and detris and debris and schmutz and water accumulate in your oil storage "area". A really good oil filter [e.g. Oberg] might filter down to 5 micron or less, but require frequent cleanings. Hence you only see this type of filter in racing and special applications.

   2A. So what? heres what!  Some of that dirt is abrasive. None of it is helpful. It is circulated under pressure. Now imagine that your very expensive synthetic oil is circulating little tiny abrasive bits all around those critical lubricated interface points. Doesn't matter how much the "excipient" [big word] costs, what you have now created is a very expensive  cutting fluid -. no matter how expensive. The size of the little cutter buggers is only limited by your oil filter. And your standard oil filter is a balance between longevity and particle size.

So So So?

Oil gets dirty. (Did I yell that yet?) YES AND OIL GETS DIRTY AT THE SAME RATE .. got it?  WHETHER IT'S USED "Wolfshead" OIL FILTERED THROUGH WONDERBREAD, OR ULTRA-SYNTHETIC  Magic elixure DERIVED FROM SIBERIAN ANT GLANDS AND COSTS $5000/ounce... It gets dirty long before it ever could wear out!  ""            

I happen to agree with that 100%

[Joe Breaux]

5 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

Still running good. I still have the issue with starting. Just takes a few hits with the key to get it to turn over and start. It doesn't get run every day, though. Maybe that's the issue?

I have a Zero Turn 60 in mower that has done that for years.. I have replaced starter, battery, cables, switches , every part in the starting system and it still does it!.. crazy huh?

[T-boss 410]

10 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

I completely disagree.. You change oil BECAUSE it gets dirty and can no longer hold deposits in suspension.. Oil does not wear out in 3000 miles .   heres a thought from a real  expert..........." Does oil wrar out?  

..........oil  goes "bad" from two things:

1. The long chains get broken down due to wear. But ask any tribologist with an ounce of morals, and they will tell you that modern engine oil is sufficient to last MANY thousands of miles, perhaps 10-20K or more . (I get that you speak hours - I'm too lazy to translate that to knots.) And that's good old dinosaur juice. Modern synthetic compounds have wonderful properties, and might last twice as long as the organic stuff. In fact, with the exception of point #2, the right synthetic might last 50,000 -60,000 miles. (x 0.868976 knots)

2. and you say...BUT BUT BUT.... Oil gets dirty. Little particles of soot and combustion products and small insects and detris and debris and schmutz and water accumulate in your oil storage "area". A really good oil filter [e.g. Oberg] might filter down to 5 micron or less, but require frequent cleanings. Hence you only see this type of filter in racing and special applications.

   2A. So what? heres what!  Some of that dirt is abrasive. None of it is helpful. It is circulated under pressure. Now imagine that your very expensive synthetic oil is circulating little tiny abrasive bits all around those critical lubricated interface points. Doesn't matter how much the "excipient" [big word] costs, what you have now created is a very expensive  cutting fluid -. no matter how expensive. The size of the little cutter buggers is only limited by your oil filter. And your standard oil filter is a balance between longevity and particle size.

So So So?

Oil gets dirty. (Did I yell that yet?) YES AND OIL GETS DIRTY AT THE SAME RATE .. got it?  WHETHER IT'S USED "Wolfshead" OIL FILTERED THROUGH WONDERBREAD, OR ULTRA-SYNTHETIC  Magic elixure DERIVED FROM SIBERIAN ANT GLANDS AND COSTS $5000/ounce... It gets dirty long before it ever could wear out!  ""            

I happen to agree with that 100%

I agree with you, Joe. If they made a filter that could remove all the dirt and other contaminants, we would have much greater oil change frequencies.

[T-boss 410]

7 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

I have a Zero Turn 60 in mower that has done that for years.. I have replaced starter, battery, cables, switches , every part in the starting system and it still does it!.. crazy huh?

Dude, it's got me flustered. The only thing I haven't done is replace the battery cables. Maybe I should try some cables that are larger in diameter?

[Joe Breaux]

2 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

Dude, it's got me flustered. The only thing I haven't done is replace the battery cables. Maybe I should try some cables that are larger in diameter?

I did put larger cables and a car battery on my mower.. still has to grunt 2-3 times before it spins fast enough to start.. 

[Joe Breaux]

3 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

I agree with you, Joe. If they made a filter that could remove all the dirt and other contaminants, we would have much greater oil change frequencies.

I have another  old friend who is an engine rebuilder by trade.. he says he changes just the filter at  5K, 7K, 10 K and 13K and then changes oil at 15K. because oil does not wear out , just gets dirty 

[Joe Breaux]

sometimes you gotta just say WTF!

[T-boss 410]

Buddy, I've been using that phrase a whole lot lately.

[Andrew WIlson]

On 6/18/2023 at 2:07 PM, Bill Hughes said:

The best way to change the oil is to use an oil extraction pump and pump the oil out of the fill tube with the engine warm (not hot). Fill with new oil in the amount you extracted then check the level and top off if needed. This will be close to 1.5 Quarts. When used properly the extraction pump will remove all but a teaspoon of the old oil (not enough to worry about. 

Done in 5 minutes and no mess. Even Mercedes and BMW do it this way these days. No real need to clean the screen and no need to worry with the sealing ring on the plug. If you had chucks of metal big enough for the screen to catch, you have much bigger problems than an oil change. 

I just did an oil change on one for a customer. I would for sure drain especially for the first time. the pickup screen behind the plug was 90% plugged with pieces of rtv from assembly and pieces of block casting. if this just got sucked out it would have lost oil pressure very soon. I agree sucking oil out works in some cases but with this type of filter system it should be drained from the plug. 

[Joe Breaux]

I still say if manufacturer didnt want you to DRAIN the oil and wanted you to vaccuum it out thru the dipstick, they would not have installed a DRAIN PLUG!  just sayin