Shock Info!

[rocmoc]

Flatbed,

I started another topic because I did not want to hijack the Hi topic.

Pulled the shock today, all approx. measurements.

Extended, 23"

Travel, 5"

Shaft size, 7/8"

Spring size, 3 1/2"

I could not find a marking anywhere on the shock or spring.

I think the most important measurement is the extend length. If longer, the CV joint will pull apart. I feel limit straps are a MUST. The rear suspension arm will drop/travel further once the shock is removed. I feel this abuses the shock if the damping is not perfect. I am sure this is what caused the shock to fail. I WILL be installing limit straps. I have not done any corner weights but I would guess at least 700 lbs on the rear corners.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Kinarfi,

What did you do for a replacement shock? Thanks for the Detailed specs for the shock. I have looked at all the aftermarket brands and no one makes anything with our shaft size and load with less than 8" of travel. Limit straps & bumper stops will safeguard for too much travel. I will probably go with 23" extended, 8" travel and the 2.5 body/damping. I just have to sale an arm & a leg to purchase them.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Forgot to mention, if you remove the shock two shock spacers the size of wedding rings will fall out. They are located between the shock and the bracket with the bolt running thu the ring/spacer. One on each side (2) of the shock mount, top & bottom (2) for a total of 4 per shock. You will need these to reinstall the/a shock. Don't loose them. They are hard to find at shock shops & 4 wheel drive shop. A regular parts house will not have them, been down that road before.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[flatbed]

rocmoc Talked to my shock contact guy. he is going to have his son check into what they have. I guess i could measure mine to find out the lengths. when you say 23", that is center to center on the shock holes fully extended. I do not believe there is 700 lbs on each rear courner of the car. I would say 500 at the most with 2 people in the car. Next time i take mine to work i will pull it on the scales, might do it before i go to the desert. 500 each tire on the back and maybe 450 on the front apiece. thats 1900 lbs. what do you htink.

[4x4x454]

I really like this topic great one!!! I have been wondering my self what I was going to do. it is only a matter of time i am afraid.

[Kinarfi]

I ordered a stock one from my dealer and even though it was less than 90 days, he said shocks aren't warrantied and it was $140, So I paid for it and have not had any further trouble. The funny thing was, one of his new troopers was leaking from the right rear which is what I had to replace, I bet he got his under warranty

[Kinarfi]

Kinarfi,

What did you do for a replacement shock? Thanks for the Detailed specs for the shock. I have looked at all the aftermarket brands and no one makes anything with our shaft size and load with less than 8" of travel. Limit straps & bumper stops will safeguard for too much travel. I will probably go with 23" extended, 8" travel and the 2.5 body/damping. I just have to sale an arm & a leg to purchase them.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I'll trade you two disabled legs, one with a fused ankle (currently on a cast) and new shocks from Joyner https://teamjoynerusa.3dcartstores.com/Troo...t_p_9-190.html# for two good legs, I'll even take the left arm if it come with a good shoulder ,

[flatbed]

Looks like joyner is real proud of their shocks. Give me a little time, i'll se what we can do

[rocmoc]

Sorry Kinarfi, did not mean to offend.

Should have said, more expensive than the Wall Street Bailout.

Again Sorry,

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Thanks Flatbed!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

Rocmoc, No offense at all, just making lite of my situation, I assume you're not interested in my deal and you won't trade.

If I can't laugh at myself, who can I laugh at? I'd have to cry other wise, and I'd rather laugh.

Sorry if I was misunderstood.

It's all just fun stuff

Jeff

[rocmoc]

No I did not misunderstand, but as the same time I did not want to be misunderstood. Now we can sing around the campfire, LOL!

Glad to hear you cup is half-full.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Talked to JoynerUSA today. Replacement shock of the same, best price $165/shock. The upgrade shock is a King knockoff but IS NOT King, a clone! I asked them about limit straps and they referred me to Unleashed Motorsports.

Talked to Unleashed and they said some guys were using old seatbelts. What a great IDEA! I replaced both of the seatbelts in the Trooper with camlocks so I had two sets of belts just laying around. I used the lap-belt without the latch. I spread the slot so the lower shock bolt would fit thu. I mounted the slotted metal end on the lower bolt on tire side of the shock. Ran the belt around the upper support mount for the top of the shock and back down. Weaved the belt thu the lock. Now all I had to do is pull on the tightening loop I would normally pull to tighten the belt on my lap. One trick! The spring was adjusted down too much on my shocks, too much spring tension . All compression shock travel, no extension. I backed 1/3" of tension off the springs which equated to 1/2" of sag. This soften the springs, provided more shock travel and enabled me to be able to remove slack in the NEW limit straps. I was surprised how well T2 drove. Went over some up bumps and no banging of the shocks on extension travel.

This will be a great temp fix while I sort thu the shock options.

I did ask Joyner if they could rebuild T2 shocks. They said they did not have the parts YET, but it was something they were looking into. My only concern is quality of the existing shock. What is the difference between the Joyner replacement which includes the spring for $165 and an aftermarket shock less the spring at $300. Has to be quality or the aftermarket guys have a great markup or the price differential of China production cost vs. USA production cost

Anyway I am back on the road at about 90%. I WILL be taking a bunch of pics soon!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

Thanks rocmoc great idea I will be doing that this weekend.

[Kinarfi]

Here's something to ponder, We have CV joints and they can only take so much deflection from straight, what if we put on a shock with slightly less extension length but slightly more travel? I think this would cost us some ground clearance, but give us more travel, if we have the ground clearance for wheel travel and we wouldn't be risking CV damage.

Just an idea to consider.

Jeff

[flatbed]

shock guy called today. 23.35 " long 2.0 shocks with 8" of stroke with springs, These are fox shocks @ 285.00 apiece. I was very busy when he called, but i think these have 2 springs per shock

[rocmoc]

flatbed,

IMHO, the 2.0 is too light for the weight of the Trooper. I think a min of 2.5 is needed. What do you think? I come to this conclusion from reading Fox's description of their shocks on their site. They write the 2.0 is for a light weight buggy. I don't consider the Trooper light weight. Thanks you for your work!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

Does anyone have access to some scales and be willing to weigh the front and rear of a Trooper and post it?

[flatbed]

I will get true weights in the next couple weeks, just need time to get to scales. There is a set next door to us at the shop.

[rocmoc]

Here's something to ponder, We have CV joints and they can only take so much deflection from straight, what if we put on a shock with slightly less extension length but slightly more travel? I think this would cost us some ground clearance, but give us more travel, if we have the ground clearance for wheel travel and we wouldn't be risking CV damage.

Just an idea to consider.

Jeff

More to ponder! The rear diff can easily be lower a couple of inches. If you do the shock needs to be a couple of inches longer to accommodate the new longer shock travel. Or use the same length shock and you will have more travel in extension. Something to think about when and if you have to replace your shocks and you are thinking about lowering the rear diff.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[flatbed]

By lowering the rear dif, it will actualy lower the car untll you change the upper shock mount, when you do this you are doing nothing to change the travel in the axle. It still moves the same distance up or down from lock to lock in the cv joint. When you lower the rear diff you also need to lower the shock mount. The suspension will be able to drop futher but it will not be able to cycle as high. Bottom line is the car will sit higher but have the same travel because the rear axle already cycles from lock to lock in the cv joint. Hope i did not confuse you.

[rocmoc]

The angle of the CV/axle to the carrier hub in the rear suspension is not centered/neutral, the axle is over committed to the extended position. There is very little extension travel in the Trooper's rear suspension. I had to back off the spring adjustment on my Trooper. The factory ride height has the spring maxed with the shock at full extension. If you lower the diff, you move the axle to a more neutral position. The Fox 2.5 shock with 8" of travel is 25+" extended. In this new diff position, the springs can carry the load to the exiting height with more travel in the extend position without increasing the CV/axle angle and without the spring load/adjustment maxed. If you do not move the diff, you will be required to run limit straps at around 22" or the axle will over extend the angle on the CV. In looking at the Trooper's rear suspension, I believe they made an error in not designing the CV/axle angle more neutral. This is a problem I had to work with on my last race car. People were doing the opposite, lowering the car's ride height too much making the CV/axle angle too severe in the compressed position. After just a couple races the CV would fail. In our case the CV could pull apart before it ever fails. I believe at this point a 25+" extend shock is required with limit straps until the diff is lowered or you will have to buy new shocks twice.

Flatbed, what are the chances of asking your Fox Shock guy what his price would be for a set of two 2.5 remote reservoir shocks with 8" of travel? Also what would be his opinion of using our existing springs. The Trooper feels pretty balanced, the need is damping!

Thanks,

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[flatbed]

I have not sycled the rear shock so i do not know if we are trying to pull the axle out when compressed, I know when i sycled the front i was not impreseed with the cv angles. I will call tonight and see what i can find out on the shocks, I will try to get the trooper on a set of scales this week so we can get some real numbers. I know you know this rocmoc, but we can also change the angle on the shocks so that we can use all of the shock so that we can get some real droop in the car with out the spring being bound.

[rocmoc]

Thanks Flatbed. Yeah but I hate getting into moving coil over shock mounts. It is incredible how well the Trooper handles and rides with only 5" of travel in the shock. As you know but other may not the slanted/offset from vertical increases the shock travel over the 5". The problem is in extension where the CV joint can be pulled apart. NO PROBLEM in compression!

Please ask you Fox guy prices without springs AND with springs.

Thanks again,

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

I find that when i jump i some times bottom out do i need more presser in the shock or what can i do to stop this from happening. Will this cause the cv joint to fall out?/

[flatbed]

rocmoc say there is plenty of room for the cv when the suspension is compressed, so you probably won't hurt any thing as long as you don't land to hard.

[4x4x454]

What do you consider to hard?

[rocmoc]

flatbed, agree. The concern is when the shock is extended.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

So they might pull apart in the air? That would not be good 6' of the ground.

[rocmoc]

4x4x454,

When you feel it in you body. When your teeth hit, when you feel a pain in your neck, when you can't keep your hands on whatever you are holding on to, when you hear a bad sound upon landing or when you see smoke upon landing (oil from a blown shock). Just a few but mainly when it hurts!

The factory shocks keep the suspension from over extending and pulling the CV joint apart. But if I had it to do over again, I think if I had installed limit straps it may have lengthen the life of the shocks. I think the banging of the shock rod/shaft on the shock body when extended contributed greatly the the failure of my shock. And it does not have to be a big jump. If you hear a bang when you go over a bump and the body of the car lifts upward, that is the bang I am talking about. My personal opinion.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico