Shock revalve & spring adjustment

[rocmoc]

I am having my new Fox shocks re-valved next week, one free re-valving came with the purchase. I pulled the shocks off today and took the Trooper for a ride without the shocks. Keep in mind I released all N2 pressure in the Joyner Coil-over shocks that I am using for the springs only. I was surprised the diff was so small. You could feel a small increase in the small bumps action but not that bad. Same with the big rebound going thu a large dip. Mid-range seem to have not changed. But overall did not feel quite as solid/secure/safe. I have back off on the spring ride height/tension on the spring trying to soften the ride. Yes I know the spring rate control the softness but It will release some. I am going to back off a bunch more on the spring height/tension as the change/feel has been almost nothing so far.

The shocks. I am going to have them softened by 30%. Just so you know, when you change by more than 10% the entire shock is changed thu the entire shock stroke. 10% or less they make a simple washer change that only effects the top end of the stroke.

Since I have driven Lenny's Trooper I have a good comparison. His is much softer than mine and has much much more sway when turning. I have yet made any adjustments to the front and you can not do one without effecting the other. Will have the Shocks back by the end of next week and reinstalled by the following week. Will report the results. I am also going to take a BIG swing at backing off the tension on the springs, rear & front. Let me say tho my trooper is already the best handling 4X4 I have had, I could live with it as it is.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Mopartist]

I am having my new Fox shocks re-valved next week, one free re-valving came with the purchase. I pulled the shocks off today and took the Trooper for a ride without the shocks. Keep in mind I released all N2 pressure in the Joyner Coil-over shocks that I am using for the springs only. I was surprised the diff was so small. You could feel a small increase in the small bumps action but not that bad. Same with the big rebound going thu a large dip. Mid-range seem to have not changed. But overall did not feel quite as solid/secure/safe. I have back off on the spring ride height/tension on the spring trying to soften the ride. Yes I know the spring rate control the softness but It will release some. I am going to back off a bunch more on the spring height/tension as the change/feel has been almost nothing so far.

The shocks. I am going to have them softened by 30%. Just so you know, when you change by more than 10% the entire shock is changed thu the entire shock stroke. 10% or less they make a simple washer change that only effects the top end of the stroke.

Since I have driven Lenny's Trooper I have a good comparison. His is much softer than mine and has much much more sway when turning. I have yet made any adjustments to the front and you can not do one without effecting the other. Will have the Shocks back by the end of next week and reinstalled by the following week. Will report the results. I am also going to take a BIG swing at backing off the tension on the springs, rear & front. Let me say tho my trooper is already the best handling 4X4 I have had, I could live with it as it is.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I'm curious if you use front wheel spacers on your Trooper; and if so, did they make any change in the ride? Could I ask what specs are the correct ones for aftermarket shocks? I will be ordering shocks in the near future and am a bit perplexed as to what I need. I'm also looking for a "cushy" ride. Not alot of jumping; but want it to be able to handle it if I find myself flying off a cliff.

[rocmoc]

Mopartist, here are a couple of links that will help. I installed Vision Wheels Buckshot wheels that do not require a spacer.

http://www.utvboard.com/topic/1844-trooper-t2-larger-tires-and-top-speed/page__p__7447__hl__%2Bvision+%2Bwheels__fromsearch__1#entry7447

http://www.utvboard.com/topic/517-tires-and-wheels/page__p__796__hl__%2Bvision+%2Bwheels__fromsearch__1#entry796

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

I am having my new Fox shocks re-valved next week, one free re-valving came with the purchase. I pulled the shocks off today and took the Trooper for a ride without the shocks. Keep in mind I released all N2 pressure in the Joyner Coil-over shocks that I am using for the springs only. I was surprised the diff was so small. You could feel a small increase in the small bumps action but not that bad. Same with the big rebound going thu a large dip. Mid-range seem to have not changed. But overall did not feel quite as solid/secure/safe. I have back off on the spring ride height/tension on the spring trying to soften the ride. Yes I know the spring rate control the softness but It will release some. I am going to back off a bunch more on the spring height/tension as the change/feel has been almost nothing so far.

The shocks. I am going to have them softened by 30%. Just so you know, when you change by more than 10% the entire shock is changed thu the entire shock stroke. 10% or less they make a simple washer change that only effects the top end of the stroke.

Since I have driven Lenny's Trooper I have a good comparison. His is much softer than mine and has much much more sway when turning. I have yet made any adjustments to the front and you can not do one without effecting the other. Will have the Shocks back by the end of next week and reinstalled by the following week. Will report the results. I am also going to take a BIG swing at backing off the tension on the springs, rear & front. Let me say tho my trooper is already the best handling 4X4 I have had, I could live with it as it is.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Rocmoc, remember that sway amount is a function of 2 things, the spring rating and if using a tender spring, when the tender spring is taken out of play when it bottoms on its limiting collar. I'm finding that when I set it up so the sway is limited, say the Troopers top bar swinging out 2" (guessing), the softness of the suspension does not stay soft for enough travel to satisfy me. At first I was nervus to let it swing out more on hard turns fearing tipping. Now i'm allowing it to swing out maybe 4"-5" (guessing at that too) and find I can be softer for longer and the sway stops there and holds. Turns just as well without any indication of tipping. It just sort of hooks up in the turn. I can come into a turn hot and hard with braking and the rear tends to slide out but not too much, it's just right while the front holds solid. Kind of reminds me of when I raced motorcycles, scrambles. I would run wide open down the straight and then just before the turn let off the throttle the last minute and hit the compression release (not used anymore). The back would drift out and be just right at about 1/3 of the way through to set you up for powering the rest of the way through and out of the turn. My main springs are stiff enough to catch the big hits and the bump stops handle the ocassional extra heavy hits. I really need to go to 2" longer tender springs on the rear because I need a bit more travel without the springs going solid. Also I prefer to have the rear set a bit higher and I can do that with longer springs without stiffening the ride more. I'll also can gain a bit more soft travel if I desire. Right now I have 200# over 225# springs on the front. It too is better but here I also could use a longer tender and maybe even use 200 over 200 here, time will tell. Remember that when you have 200 over 200, the actual spring rate until the tender is out of play is 100# per inch. It then shifts to 200#. I'm getting real close and it is softer now then when you rode it. Good luck with yours.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Shocks, no one has come forward with the final ultimate performance setup. Everyone here is still experimenting, but these are performance guys pushing the limits. There are a couple of Vendors that say they have the setup, No Limits Powersports http://www.joyner-atv-utv.com/ and Silverbullet Motorsports http://silverbulletmotorsports.net/ for the everyday guy/couple looking to improve ride & reliability. Give them a call.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Mopartist]

I don't know much about shocks, but I couldn't help but wonder if anyone has compared Rhino, Polaris, and Kawi aftermarket shock kits to what it would take to fit a Trooper? (On second thought; Our Troopers are about 300 lbs heavier) but could that be made closer with springs?

[Guest Lenny]

Spacers on the rear don't make any differance but on the front they do. On the rear you are not extending the effective swing arm length but on the front you are because the A-frames pivot from the sides. The bigger the spacer, the softer the ride gets and the more travel you get.

Lenny

[Guest Lenny]

I don't know much about shocks, but I couldn't help but wonder if anyone has compared Rhino, Polaris, and Kawi aftermarket shock kits to what it would take to fit a Trooper? (On second thought; Our Troopers are about 300 lbs heavier) but could that be made closer with springs?

I think you will be better off not trying to adapt. The suspension setups being done buy the guys here will be the better way to go. I would wait a bit to see what Rocmoc ends up with. His setup would be doable for the average rider and provide a great ride. My setup of 14.5" of travel is much more involved. I'll be posting what I have done when I'm finished if you want to get more extreme but it's a lot of modification. Like Rocmoc said shocks from No Limit Powersports or Silverbullet Motorsports would be far better then stock.

Lenny

[Mopartist]

Yeah; the thing that I'm noticing is that some of the vendors offers Walker Evans shocks; and unless I'm not understanding it correctly (which is highly possible if not probable) ; then they are charging a price for "each" shock and from Walker Evans it's the same price for a pair. So I'm needing the stock specs to see if I can check in to Rancho, or Bilstien, or Fox. All of their websites have shocks for Yamaha, Polaris, and Kawasaki and I can't help but think we (Trooper owners) may use the same shock and a heavier spring. The long travel kits for the big 3 only have 6 inches of travel. I don't know what that would work out to as far as wheel travel at the end of the A arms and trailing arms? Again; I'm probably wrong on this; but if I don't ask; I may end up with the wrong shock at a higher price.

[rocmoc]

If your are bound to go it on your own; Fox, FOA & King are your choices. FOA has a shock sizing site but nearly takes an Engineer to understand. Easiest is work with Off Road Warehouse http://offroadwarehouse.com/contact . You can call the 800 # and ask for Nick or the shock guy. He is the shock guy and will work with you to make your purchase. Prices are very good, bought mine from them, & service is excellent. If you go thu them I would recommend Fox Shocks. I believe Flatbed also worked with Off Road Warehouse when he upgraded to Fox. Maybe Kinarfi will post how he purchased his FOA shocks. Of course Lenny blazed his own trail, LOL.

Forgot to mention, Shocks are the easy part. It is the springs that are a pain!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Mopartist]

Thanks guys. Hopefully some of the vendors will have it dialed in before long. Since Silverbullet and No Limits are also Joyner vehicle dealers; maybe they can come up with the perfect combo and settings. I hate it that ALL of the aftermarket vendors do not include Joyner in any of their services. Heck they even include Kubota (which isn'rt even a sport/performance vehicle) When i get my Trooper dialed in; I'm going hunting for Razors. The other 2 are no threat. (except for CanAm)

[Jarrad]

King already makes a shock fir the trooper. But it is pricey

[Guest Lenny]

Spacers on the rear don't make any differance but on the front they do. On the rear you are not extending the effective swing arm length but on the front you are because the A-frames pivot from the sides. The bigger the spacer, the softer the ride gets and the more travel you get.

Lenny

What I said above is incorrect. Spacers on the front don't change the suspension and travel length. You would have to extend the A-frame arms to do that. Don't know what I was thinking, or rather not thinking.

Lenny

[Mopartist]

I'm not sure I agree with you Lenny. I think you were right the first time. Although this is a crude drawing; this is the way i understand it. That due to a longer radius; the travel of the A arm also increases.

[Kinarfi]

Travel stays the same.

[Guest Lenny]

I'm not sure I agree with you Lenny. I think you were right the first time. Although this is a crude drawing; this is the way i understand it. That due to a longer radius; the travel of the A arm also increases.

If you only had one A-frame rather then two and the axel went straight off the end then, the farther you went out with the wheel the more swing you would get. The wheel would also tip from in at the top when up and out when down. But the axel is parellel to the ground and stays that way through the arc. Now extend the axel out another 10" say or 10' for that matter and it still stays parellel to the ground and goes through the same swing. It's because you have 2 A-frames to hold the axel parellel to the ground that everything stays the same.The only way to increase the travel or leverage on teh spring is to lengthen the A-frames.

Lenny

[Mopartist]

Oooops; I'm wrong now I see!

[Mopartist]

Ohhhhhhh! Now I see what you mean. Yes; the spindle and the spacer are parellel to the ground. Thanks guys! Physics isn't my strong suit.

However; there would probably be a bit softer ride due to the force point being farther out from the pivot point I think. (Same as gripping a wrench up close to the nut rather than at the end where you can get more torque; or the use of a breaker bar)

[rocmoc]

Picked up my shocks yesterday. They are now revalved 35 - 55 from the factory 50 - 70. This is a touch softer than Lenny's at 40 - 60. Lenny does carry more weight in the rear, LOL! Siriusly, Lenny's rear corner weights are larger therefore requiring more damping. Our two Troopers should be pretty close to each other in damping. Now to work on the springs. I will install shocks & adjust springs Monday/Tuesday.

Also found out the cost for revalving is $27/shock. First one is free with purchase.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[2scoops]

Picked up my shocks yesterday. They are now revalved 35 - 55 from the factory 50 - 70. This is a touch softer than Lenny's at 40 - 60. Lenny does carry more weight in the rear, LOL! Siriusly, Lenny's rear corner weights are larger therefore requiring more damping. Our two Troopers should be pretty close to each other in damping. Now to work on the springs. I will install shocks & adjust springs Monday/Tuesday.

Also found out the cost for revalving is $27/shock. First one is free with purchase.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Rocmoc,

Did you ever get out to test you new valving? Better? What spring combination did you finally end up with? Would you change anything? I am very interested because I am going to be installing new Fox 8.5" coilovers in the upcoming month or two, and I need to order springs. Your help is greatly appreciated.

[Mudslinger]

Hi guys, I am new to this site, but i have been a dealer for joyner for over 4 years. I have installed about 6 complete sets of KING shocks on different troopers, and every customer has told me that it was the best money they ever spent.I run a turboed 800 sand viper with the Kings in the back and can tell you its day and night. King has several diferent combinations for the trooper. I highly recomend them.

[Jarrad]

Hi guys, I am new to this site, but i have been a dealer for joyner for over 4 years. I have installed about 6 complete sets of KING shocks on different troopers, and every customer has told me that it was the best money they ever spent.I run a turboed 800 sand viper with the Kings in the back and can tell you its day and night. King has several diferent combinations for the trooper. I highly recomend them.

Welcome Mudslinger, glad you finally made it to the board. I have also used the Kings, they are a little pricey, but they do work well.

Jarrad

[AngolasBest]

So will the shock replacement help the Joyner from being so rigid when hitting bumps? It just seems that it is so stiff!