Fuel Pump

[66fastcarss]

So riding on vacation in Montana this week. Was out and parked on about a 10 degree incline and shut off the machine. Got back in about 5-10 minutes later and wouldn't start (Turned over but no start). Spent a few anxious minutes with the family wondering if we were walking or not. I noticed I had no fuel pressure and so I unplugged the fan and cycled on the key. Just a couple clicks from the pump. So went to undo the lines and realized I left all my tools at the house so had only my pocket knife and the spanner wrench for the shocks. So making the most of the situation I banged on the fuel pump to see if I could knock it loose (AKA beat it into submission). I cycled the key on again and Wala...fuel pump on and pressure...fired right up. Did it one more time today (separate trip parked in similar position). Quick bang on the pump and back in business in less than a minute this time.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had their pump stick. Could this be due to bad gas from being parked for a long time before I bought it or some other issue? Is it servicable/cleanable or heck, at this stage I may replace it with a holley pump or similar electric pump that I can count on and consider it one more Chinese piece of crap I don't have to depend on when I am out riding.

Any thoughts or comments???

Jeff

[Kinarfi]

  On 7/9/2011 at 1:22 AM, 66fastcarss said:

So riding on vacation in Montana this week. Was out and parked on about a 10 degree incline and shut off the machine. Got back in about 5-10 minutes later and wouldn't start (Turned over but no start). Spent a few anxious minutes with the family wondering if we were walking or not. I noticed I had no fuel pressure and so I unplugged the fan and cycled on the key. Just a couple clicks from the pump. So went to undo the lines and realized I left all my tools at the house so had only my pocket knife and the spanner wrench for the shocks. So making the most of the situation I banged on the fuel pump to see if I could knock it loose (AKA beat it into submission). I cycled the key on again and Wala...fuel pump on and pressure...fired right up. Did it one more time today (separate trip parked in similar position). Quick bang on the pump and back in business in less than a minute this time.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had their pump stick. Could this be due to bad gas from being parked for a long time before I bought it or some other issue? Is it servicable/cleanable or heck, at this stage I may replace it with a holley pump or similar electric pump that I can count on and consider it one more Chinese piece of crap I don't have to depend on when I am out riding.

Any thoughts or comments???

Jeff

After you unhooked the fan, could you hear the fuel pump running? or just click? and was the click from the fuel pump or some relay clicking in?

[Banjo Minnow]

This happened to me last weekend. My brother in law was driving and the trooper just died . We still haven't had any luck restarting it. There is no fuel pressure and no fuel coming from the pump outlet. I am just assuming a bad pump, what do you guys think?

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/9/2011 at 3:09 PM, Banjo Minnow said:

This happened to me last weekend. My brother in law was driving and the trooper just died . We still haven't had any luck restarting it. There is no fuel pressure and no fuel coming from the pump outlet. I am just assuming a bad pump, what do you guys think?

Just hook some wires from the battery directly to the pump and see if it runs. The polarity should be marked on the top of pump. If it doesn't, check the relay and fuse. Don't just look at the fuse, use a meter. The computer grounds the pump to run it so if it isn't grounding it, you could put a switch on it and bypass the computer.

Lenny

[Banjo Minnow]

I put a battery charger for a source and the pump just hums, no pumping. I replaced the fuse and the relay. When I checked the relay connections from behind, 2 posts had power and the white wire on the right didn't have power but when I put the test light to it, it made the relay click. Not sure if that is normal or not. When I pressurized the tank fuel went through the pump. What's next?

[Kinarfi]

The black wire going to the fuel pump is tied to several other black wires in the harness some where, so for testing purposes, run a wire from the neg terminal to chassis ground and then hook a jumper from the batter or your battery charger or what ever source you have to the positive terminal after you disconnect the regular wire and see what happens. The pump pulls several amps, so a light weight battery charge may not work and they don't provide a solid DC either.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

Analizing Fuel Pump Problems

Like Kinarfi said, I wouldn't trust the battery charger. Just run some wires directly from the battery. Two wires on the back of the relay will have power when the key is turned on. There are 4 terminals on the relay. Two of them (#85 & #86, printed on relay by terminals) are for the coil that triggers the relay on. One of these two will have 12v+, the other goes to the computer. When the key is turned on, the computer grounds the wire from the relay completing the circuit to run the pump. But when you turn the key on and before the engine is started, the computer only runs it for a moment to prime it then it turns it back off. If you have a multimeter, you could tap this line from the computer to see if it is grounding that wire momentarily when you turn the key on. If so, the computer is OK as far as the fuel pump operation goes. When you have one of the #85 or #86 terminals hooked to 12v and you ground the other side, the relay should click and with the multimeter you should get continunity between the other two terminals on the relay (#87 & #30)or if you have 12v hooked to either #87 or #30 and you activate the relay, the other terminal, either #87 or #30 should have 12v at it. If not the relay is bad. If this is ok, then connect the relay back up as normal and check for 12v at the pump momentarily when you turn on the ignition. If you don't get 12v at the pump, you hav a short in the wiring to the pump from the relay. If you get power to the pump (the - terminal hooked to ground and the + terminal receiving 12v and it doesn't run, the pump is bad.

Kinarfi, would you please include this in the technicla articles? Thank You. If I missed anything, you can add your comments to it.

Lenny

[66fastcarss]

So rather than having to get out and bang on the fuel pump every time I stop and it sticks, can I just replace with something like a holley fuel pump? These are only about $85 where as I see on silverbullets site they have pumps from $145 to $185.. Is there a certain flow rate and pressure that needs to be maintained and if so what is this? I know the FI and carb pumps are different, but typically FI pumps run much higher pressures where as the Joyners run low pressure--like carburated engines around 6-8 PSI right? So could I just use a pump for a carburated engine and be just fine with this? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, I just don't want to spend money that I won't work out when I can ask the folks on here.

Jeff

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/12/2011 at 2:02 AM, 66fastcarss said:

So rather than having to get out and bang on the fuel pump every time I stop and it sticks, can I just replace with something like a holley fuel pump? These are only about $85 where as I see on silverbullets site they have pumps from $145 to $185.. Is there a certain flow rate and pressure that needs to be maintained and if so what is this? I know the FI and carb pumps are different, but typically FI pumps run much higher pressures where as the Joyners run low pressure--like carburated engines around 6-8 PSI right? So could I just use a pump for a carburated engine and be just fine with this? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, I just don't want to spend money that I won't work out when I can ask the folks on here.

Jeff

No, a low pressure pump will not work. Your Trooper engine requires 45 to 55 pounds pressure. If you get a pump that is used for fuel injection you should be fine. I don't think size will be a problen as most you will find are from larger engines.

Ps, thanks for your order, I'll get it out tomorrow.

Lenny

[silverbullet]

silverbullet

Always ask the board first.They have lots of experience from owning them for a long time.And Lenny and the other guys know their stuff.

Rick

[66fastcarss]

  On 7/12/2011 at 2:27 AM, Lenny said:

No, a low pressure pump will not work. Your Trooper engine requires 45 to 55 pounds pressure. If you get a pump that is used for fuel injection you should be fine. I don't think size will be a problen as most you will find are from larger engines.

Ps, thanks for your order, I'll get it out tomorrow.

Lenny

No Lenny seriously thanks for all you do for our troopers and us!

For the pump issues, I am confused why the gauge is a low pressure gauge showing only 6ish psi going to the injectors. I would think the 45 Psi for an injected engine seems more common but why limit it down to 6psi then?

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/12/2011 at 3:45 PM, 66fastcarss said:

No Lenny seriously thanks for all you do for our troopers and us!

For the pump issues, I am confused why the gauge is a low pressure gauge showing only 6ish psi going to the injectors. I would think the 45 Psi for an injected engine seems more common but why limit it down to 6psi then?

Maybe you have a bad gauge. 6 psi won't run the engine. If you have another gauge, try it. Most any gauge will work that goes up to about 100 psi. I'm not talking a $2 plastic gauge from the flea market but any reasonable gauge say like what you might find only our air compressor. You can use it for testing but I wouldn't keep it on on it unless it is good for oils where as a air gauge may not like extended exposure to the gas. Also is your regulator set way too low. The screw on top with the locking nut on it adjust pressure. Screw it in and pressure goes up. Might try that too.

Lenny

[66fastcarss]

Ah HAAAA.....I have figured out the error of my ways. I was looking at the manual and the photos for setting the fuel pressur and I have been looking at the big number (kgf/m2) so was seeing just below 4 which is the correct setting. We are all talking PSI wich is the small numbers on the stock gauge, so it really is at about 50 or so. This makes me feel so much better. Sometimes I just need one of those moments where it all makes sense...too bad they are few and far between . Now I will feel much better about finding a suitable pump.

Since I am not at home to look, anyone know what size fuel line they have on the trooper so I can get the right fittings and will probably replace the hose for caution sake while I am at it?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/13/2011 at 5:31 PM, 66fastcarss said:

Ah HAAAA.....I have figured out the error of my ways. I was looking at the manual and the photos for setting the fuel pressur and I have been looking at the big number (kgf/m2) so was seeing just below 4 which is the correct setting. We are all talking PSI wich is the small numbers on the stock gauge, so it really is at about 50 or so. This makes me feel so much better. Sometimes I just need one of those moments where it all makes sense...too bad they are few and far between . Now I will feel much better about finding a suitable pump.

Since I am not at home to look, anyone know what size fuel line they have on the trooper so I can get the right fittings and will probably replace the hose for caution sake while I am at it?

Thanks,

Jeff

Can't tell you sizes, mine has been all changed over from stock.

Lennuy

[Banjo Minnow]

I figured ot the fuel pump went bad. I want to know why. Could it be the fuel controller? Set at 60 lbs? Or just because they go out sometimes?

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/23/2011 at 4:10 PM, Banjo Minnow said:

I figured ot the fuel pump went bad. I want to know why. Could it be the fuel controller? Set at 60 lbs? Or just because they go out sometimes?

Fuel regulator wouldnb't cause your pump to go bad unless you had it set way high. 60psi isn't close. Pumps just go bad.

Lenny

[66fastcarss]

Swapped out the old Chinese junk for some new. New pump, lines, filter. Spent about $100 for the whole shabang and works like a charm still at 50 PSI like before. The old pump was just sticking. It is welded together so not serviceable. Cant have a sticking pump when you are miles from nowhere!

Jeff

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/23/2011 at 9:58 PM, 66fastcarss said:

Swapped out the old Chinese junk for some new. New pump, lines, filter. Spent about $100 for the whole shabang and works like a charm still at 50 PSI like before. The old pump was just sticking. It is welded together so not serviceable. Cant have a sticking pump when you are miles from nowhere!

Jeff

You are right, you don't want a breakdown when your way in, especially if alone. Shouldn't ride way in alone but sometimes if your going to get some exploring in, you will find yourself back in alone. I always carry survivlal gear if I'm going in far and don't have another vehicle riding with me. Carry dried food, five gallons of water, cooking gear, shelter and sleeping bags along with warm clothes, CB radio and back packs to walk out with if necessary. Have enough to go 5 days and should be able to hike back from about anywheres in 5 days. Having a GPS you can carry out with you is a must. Currently making a super light 2 wheeled golf cart like collapsable dolly to carry the 5 gallons of water with me. Wonder if I can get the wife to pull it out.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

  On 7/24/2011 at 12:10 AM, Lenny said:

You are right, you don't want a breakdown when your way in, especially if alone. Shouldn't ride way in alone but sometimes if your going to get some exploring in, you will find yourself back in alone. I always carry survivlal gear if I'm going in far and don't have another vehicle riding with me. Carry dried food, five gallons of water, cooking gear, shelter and sleeping bags along with warm clothes, CB radio and back packs to walk out with if necessary. Have enough to go 5 days and should be able to hike back from about anywheres in 5 days. Having a GPS you can carry out with you is a must. Currently making a super light 2 wheeled golf cart like collapsable dolly to carry the 5 gallons of water with me. Wonder if I can get the wife to pull it out.

Lenny

Lenny's got it correct, but another $150 per year, after about a hundred dollar purchase, If you carry a spot and are or get disabled, you can push one button and family and chosen friends get notified as to where you are and that you need help, press the 911 button and the search and rescue people get notified where you are and that you need help. That's what I use. plus you can have it track you.

kinarfi

[ricksrb]

  On 7/24/2011 at 12:10 AM, Lenny said:

You are right, you don't want a breakdown when your way in, especially if alone. Shouldn't ride way in alone but sometimes if your going to get some exploring in, you will find yourself back in alone. I always carry survivlal gear if I'm going in far and don't have another vehicle riding with me. Carry dried food, five gallons of water, cooking gear, shelter and sleeping bags along with warm clothes, CB radio and back packs to walk out with if necessary. Have enough to go 5 days and should be able to hike back from about anywheres in 5 days. Having a GPS you can carry out with you is a must. Currently making a super light 2 wheeled golf cart like collapsable dolly to carry the 5 gallons of water with me. Wonder if I can get the wife to pull it out.

Lenny

whats a dolly and 5 gallons of water when she has all that other gear to carry out?? I hope she appreciates you thinking of making it a little easier on her with the idea of the dolly.(l0l)

[ricksrb]

  On 7/23/2011 at 9:58 PM, 66fastcarss said:

Swapped out the old Chinese junk for some new. New pump, lines, filter. Spent about $100 for the whole shabang and works like a charm still at 50 PSI like before. The old pump was just sticking. It is welded together so not serviceable. Cant have a sticking pump when you are miles from nowhere!

Jeff

How about a make and part number on the pump? Thanks

[66fastcarss]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-25004P/

This is what I used. It is a trick flow EFI pump with 85 PSI and was $85. Nothing special, most any inline pump with enough pressure should work, but got this one as it was 5/16 line in and out. Ran new line from the tank through a new filter and then to regulator. Didn't touch anything from the regulator forward. Haven't driven it much but seems to be working just fine.

Jeff

[ricksrb]

  On 7/26/2011 at 3:25 AM, 66fastcarss said:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-25004P/

This is what I used. It is a trick flow EFI pump with 85 PSI and was $85. Nothing special, most any inline pump with enough pressure should work, but got this one as it was 5/16 line in and out. Ran new line from the tank through a new filter and then to regulator. Didn't touch anything from the regulator forward. Haven't driven it much but seems to be working just fine.

Jeff

great,thank you

[rocmoc]

Great!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico