Power loss

[ricksrb]

Took my Trooper out for the 2nd time this weekend.All was well for a short time and all of a sudden while cruising along on level ground it just started lossing power.The more I pressed on the gas the worse it got and just about came to a stop.If I down shifted and wound it pretty high in gear she flew wih no problem but if i shifted to the next gear it would just slow down and again almost stop.I checked the air cleaner and fuel filter as well as the fuel pressure and all was okay.Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,

[ricksrb]

Took my Trooper out for the 2nd time this weekend.All was well for a short time and all of a sudden while cruising along on level ground it just started lossing power.The more I pressed on the gas the worse it got and just about came to a stop.If I down shifted and wound it pretty high in gear she flew wih no problem but if i shifted to the next gear it would just slow down and again almost stop.I checked the air cleaner and fuel filter as well as the fuel pressure and all was okay.Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,

I had no respnse to this so I thought I would bring it up again.I still have not found the problem.Prior to taking it out this weekend I followed just about all the suggestions I could find on this forum from other topics regarding simular symtoms including,checking fuses,dia electric grease on connections,sensor wires rubbing bare on fan shroud,fuel filter,fuel pump and it still did the same thing.If anyone has any other suggestions I will be happy to try them.

Also have another question.When starting when engine is cold should it start right up and idle without pressing on gas? mine will not start without pressing on gas and will not idle without holding on accelerator for about 15 seconds or so,it dies out.I am comparing to a regular car here when I turn on my truck even when cold it starts up and idles without pressing on the accelerator.

Thanks in advance,

[rocmoc]

When starting Cold with my Trooper;

Sounds like your Trooper acts like mine when started.

Loss of power;

Try leaving the gas filler lid loose or off. Maybe the returns are plugged some way. Could be a speed sensor? I think no one has responded because you are the first to have this problem and no one has a solution.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

When starting Cold with my Trooper;

Sounds like your Trooper acts like mine when started.

Loss of power;

Try leaving the gas filler lid loose or off. Maybe the returns are plugged some way. Could be a speed sensor? I think no one has responded because you are the first to have this problem and no one has a solution.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Do you have to rev it for a short time before it will idle on its own?

Where is the speed sensor?

Thanks Rocmoc,I appreciate it.

[rocmoc]

Rev it a small amount.

The current engines, in everything, have sooo many sensors it makes it difficult to diagnose without a code reader. I would try to eliminate the trouble is not in the fuel system first. That is the easiest. If you have to go into the electrical, you will need a shop with tools. Speed sensor reads the speed, sends info to computer and the computer makes adjustment for current speed/environment.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

The speed sensor is on the rear part of the left side of the transmission. The engine speed sensor is on the rear right side of the transmission. The sensor on the left front of the head is for reading the cam position. The throttle position sensor is on the bottom side of the throttle body and the IAC (idle air control) is on the side of the throttle body. The air oxygen ratio sensor is on the exhaust manifold. There are 2 of them, one before and one after the catalytic converter. The MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) is on the intake manifold and there should also be a air temp sensor someplace on the intake too. I can't tell you where anymore as mine is all changed around. There are a couple of others that I can't think of right now. It does go through the list of them in the online manual starting with chapter one page 109. Most of these sensors can be tested with a multi meter. The whole thing is a bit of a learning curve but if you research each item in Google it shouldn't be too hard to find how to test them. Just type in something like "Testing MAP sensor". What the code reader will do for you as Rocmoc sujested is tell you which sensor is not working if any. But that takes a code reader. I'll be testing all of mine upon reassemble and probably change a couple to wide band sensors. Good luck.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

The speed sensor is on the rear part of the left side of the transmission. The engine speed sensor is on the rear right side of the transmission. The sensor on the left front of the head is for reading the cam position. The throttle position sensor is on the bottom side of the throttle body and the IAC (idle air control) is on the side of the throttle body. The air oxygen ratio sensor is on the exhaust manifold. There are 2 of them, one before and one after the catalytic converter. The MAP sensor (mass air flow) is on the intake manifold and there should also be a air temp sensor someplace on the intake too. I can't tell you where anymore as mine is all changed around. There are a couple of others that I can't think of right now. It does go through the list of them in the online manual starting with chapter one page 109. Most of these sensors can be tested with a multi meter. The whole thing is a bit of a learning curve but if you research each item in Google it shouldn't be too hard to find how to test them. Just type in something like "Testing MAP sensor". What the code reader will do for you as Rocmoc sujested is tell you which sensor is not working if any. But that takes a code reader. I'll be testing all of mine upon reassemble and probably change a couple to wide band sensors. Good luck.

Lenny

Thanks Lenny and Rocmoc,i have a code reader but have searched for the connection and have not found it.The manual says its under the fuse box but its not there.I have found a couple small connectors,maybe two or three wire that does not go anywhere but not the connection for my code reader.What about the poping or backfireing when in gear and releasing the accelerator,getting a popping as the vehicle slows while in gear.Thanks again,

[Guest Lenny]

Correction, the MAP sensor is not "mass air flow" but "manifold absolute pressure", wasn't thinking.

Lenny

[Paiute3]

Check and make sure that your airfilter is not pushed on to far.

George

[ricksrb]

Check and make sure that your airfilter is not pushed on to far.

George

I checked that already also,Thanks for the thought.I do apreciate it.

[4x4x454]

A code reader for a car will not work for the Trooper. The code reader for this is a stand alone item and about 2 grand. If you have a good dealer near by they might have one but other then that i would try what Lenny has said he is the man when it comes to this thing!

[ricksrb]

A code reader for a car will not work for the Trooper. The code reader for this is a stand alone item and about 2 grand. If you have a good dealer near by they might have one but other then that i would try what Lenny has said he is the man when it comes to this thing!

Yea I already started following his advise.We have been under water here in Southern Ca the last few days so have not been able to do much.Thanks for the info on the code reader,I was going nuts looking for the connection spot.

Thanks again,

[ricksrb]

Took my Trooper out for the 2nd time this weekend.All was well for a short time and all of a sudden while cruising along on level ground it just started lossing power.The more I pressed on the gas the worse it got and just about came to a stop.If I down shifted and wound it pretty high in gear she flew wih no problem but if i shifted to the next gear it would just slow down and again almost stop.I checked the air cleaner and fuel filter as well as the fuel pressure and all was okay.Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Just aquestion on this topic, I have been checking things out and came across that the valve for the charcoal canister does not appear to be working.As stated in the manual I checked voltage on the two plug posts to the valve.It says there should be 12 volts.When doing so I only got about 2.76 volts.If I check it with the positive wire to ground i get over 13 volts.It got to dark to do any more today but from what i found so far i think it might be the ground wire.I have two questions.How does this effect the over all running of the engine? Also would it be okay to run a wire straight to the block as a ground and up to the ground side of the plug just to see if the valve works.I think the current ground wire comes from the ECU so I am asking first so that I wont do damage to the ECU.

Thanks,

[Kinarfi]

http://www.utvboard.com/index.php?s=&s...dpost&p=475

Look this post over and you'll find a PDF of the wiring diagram that may help.

Let know, and good luck.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

Just aquestion on this topic, I have been checking things out and came across that the valve for the charcoal canister does not appear to be working.As stated in the manual I checked voltage on the two plug posts to the valve.It says there should be 12 volts.When doing so I only got about 2.76 volts.If I check it with the positive wire to ground i get over 13 volts.It got to dark to do any more today but from what i found so far i think it might be the ground wire.I have two questions.How does this effect the over all running of the engine? Also would it be okay to run a wire straight to the block as a ground and up to the ground side of the plug just to see if the valve works.I think the current ground wire comes from the ECU so I am asking first so that I wont do damage to the ECU.

Thanks,

It's not uncommon for a ECU to use an active ground system. In other words what happens is that the 12v power runs directly to a device and to activate the devise, the computer connects the ground wire to ground completing the circuit. This way the computer has to deal with less amperage as the current going to ground is less then the current going to the devise. Some of it gets used up by the devise. I don't know how the canister valve is set up but if it's a 12v valve, being a valve, it shouldn't matter which way you hook up it directly to a 12v battery to test it. The selonid coil inside should work with the current going either way through it. Just don't have it hooked to the computer at the same time. I think this is correct. I say I think because I learned a long time ago that Ben Franklin never used words like, yes, no, absolutely, for sure, exactly and on and on. He alway used words like, I beleive so, very close, to the best of my knowledge, probably not, always leaving himself room for being wrong. So now I use it here and there.

Lenny

[gates98]

It's not uncommon for a ECU to use an active ground system. In other words what happens is that the 12v power runs directly to a device and to activate the devise, the computer connects the ground wire to ground completing the circuit. This way the computer has to deal with less amperage as the current going to ground is less then the current going to the devise. Some of it gets used up by the devise. I don't know how the canister valve is set up but if it's a 12v valve, being a valve, it shouldn't matter which way you hook up it directly to a 12v battery to test it. The selonid coil inside should work with the current going either way through it. Just don't have it hooked to the computer at the same time. I think this is correct. I say I think because I learned a long time ago that Ben Franklin never used words like, yes, no, absolutely, for sure, exactly and on and on. He alway used words like, I beleive so, very close, to the best of my knowledge, probably not, always leaving himself room for being wrong. So now I use it here and there.

Lenny

mine is doin the same thing with the losing power stuff but its not all the time

[ricksrb]

mine is doin the same thing with the losing power stuff but its not all the time

Gates,

I am still having the problem.If you stop and rev it up a little does it go away at least for a while? Also if i turn off the battery disconnect it fixes it for a while.I have checked many things as well as changing plugs.I was recently told by an ex joyner employee to check the 02 sensors to see if they are the japanese type,if so should change them.just checked them this moring and appears they are so next thing will be changing them.

[Kinarfi]

It's not uncommon for a ECU to use an active ground system. In other words what happens is that the 12v power runs directly to a device and to activate the devise, the computer connects the ground wire to ground completing the circuit. This way the computer has to deal with less amperage as the current going to ground is less then the current going to the devise. Some of it gets used up by the devise. I don't know how the canister valve is set up but if it's a 12v valve, being a valve, it shouldn't matter which way you hook up it directly to a 12v battery to test it. The selonid coil inside should work with the current going either way through it. Just don't have it hooked to the computer at the same time. I think this is correct. I say I think because I learned a long time ago that Ben Franklin never used words like, yes, no, absolutely, for sure, exactly and on and on. He alway used words like, I beleive so, very close, to the best of my knowledge, probably not, always leaving himself room for being wrong. So now I use it here and there.

Lenny

Minor corrections, electrically, (This way the computer has to deal with less amperage as the current going to ground is less then the current going to the devise.) In an electrical circuit, Current is the same through out the circuit, like water through a hose, voltage is dropped, lost, used by the various components, like water pressure, some of the pressure is reduced by a pressure regulator, some is reduced again by a valve.

The reason for putting the switch in the negative leg has to do with ease of controlling the current, it only takes a very small current and less than 1 volt to turn on a transistor which can pass a lot of current or no current and no voltage to turn off a transistor and stop the current and power dissipated at the ECU is minimal, thus less heat generated.

Another thing to be aware of is when checking the voltage to something like the canister valve, sometime a test light is more accurate (less misleading) than a good volt meter. The lite has a relatively low resistance (100 -200 ohms) and a good volt meter has 11,000,000 ohms which can give misleading readings.

It says there should be 12 volts.When doing so I only got about 2.76 volts.If I check it with the positive wire to ground i get over 13 volts.

You were probably measuring the leakage current of the open collector switch in the ECU when you got the 2.76 volts. Also, the reference to 12 volts is a generic reference to battery voltage, any where from 12 to 15, 13.2 for a fully charged battery, 14.4 for My Trooper when running, 12.6 for a good older battery, 10 says you may have a dead cell in you battery or another problem.

Interesting thing about Ben Franklin, Maybe he just didn't want to sound an authoritarian, I do the same.

Kinarfi

[Anylizer]

I'm wondering if there are any signs of smoke from the exhaust.... if so... what color is it. When this power loss is occuring???

A.

[ricksrb]

I'm wondering if there are any signs of smoke from the exhaust.... if so... what color is it. When this power loss is occuring???

A.

no noticeable smoke on mine when it happens.

[Anylizer]

Does it act like it is flooding, or getting too much fuel? or more like it is starving for fuel??

A.

[ricksrb]

Does it act like it is flooding, or getting too much fuel? or more like it is starving for fuel??

A.

kinda acts like it starving,but if i stop and rev it up it will be fine for awhile.

[Anylizer]

how long is... "a while" ?

A.

[Guest Lenny]

You might want to check all of your sensors. The manual shows how. You can also get information from a google search. One thing you want to remember is that if the computer sees something wrong it will go into limp home mode. Not much power but it runs. If you had a sensor that was intermittent, It could send the computer into limp home. When It does it, try turning off the main power switch behind the seat. The computer should reset and eliminate the fault code. However if what caused the fault to begin with is still there, the computer would go right back to limp home. Each time it does it, cut the main power. Maybe you will find that sometimes it will work which would lead me to think an intermittent sensor or intermittent wiring problem existed. Finding a wiring problem could be tough with the way these things are wired. That's why I completely tore out all my wiring and redid all if it. Now I know whats what and what goes where and can check and trace things thing easily. LOL

Lenny

[ricksrb]

how long is... "a while" ?

A.

sometimes it will act up again in a few minutes.but most of the time it will run good for a long time.recently i have been out for a few hours more afterwards and it wont act up at all.

[ricksrb]

You might want to check all of your sensors. The manual shows how. You can also get information from a google search. One thing you want to remember is that if the computer sees something wrong it will go into limp home mode. Not much power but it runs. If you had a sensor that was intermittent, It could send the computer into limp home. When It does it, try turning off the main power switch behind the seat. The computer should reset and eliminate the fault code. However if what caused the fault to begin with is still there, the computer would go right back to limp home. Each time it does it, cut the main power. Maybe you will find that sometimes it will work which would lead me to think an intermittent sensor or intermittent wiring problem existed. Finding a wiring problem could be tough with the way these things are wired. That's why I completely tore out all my wiring and redid all if it. Now I know whats what and what goes where and can check and trace things thing easily. LOL

Lenny

done that too lenny,when it does it i sometimes have to shut the battery switch off before it runs normal and then again there has been times that has not worked.

[Anylizer]

I bet you have a bad ground some where. ck the cables at the battery, or better yet, if you haven't replace the cable clamps on the battery, do that. Get the universal top post adapters from your local parts store. The Joyner origninals are junk. You might also add an extra ground from the frame to the engine block some where, just as a precaution.

A.

[rocmoc]

I found that when I R&R'd my engine it already had 3 grounds on the engine as part of the electrical system and the motor mounts are direct bolt to the frame & engine/trans. IMHO don't waste time with another ground.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Anylizer]

While there are multiple grounds in the system, they are part of specific circuits. Also, just because there are some gounds already attached, that does not mean that they are effective. All I was suggesting was an additional..... seperate from factory Joyner.... that is marginal at best.... to be POSITIVE about a sufficient ground.

A.

[ricksrb]

While there are multiple grounds in the system, they are part of specific circuits. Also, just because there are some gounds already attached, that does not mean that they are effective. All I was suggesting was an additional..... seperate from factory Joyner.... that is marginal at best.... to be POSITIVE about a sufficient ground.

A.

worth a shot,cheap and easy to do.got nothing but a little time to lose.