Alternator, now it is MY Turn!

[rocmoc]

Stopped working, dash guage is showing zero charging. Any tips or secrets? That thing is buried up under everything. Maybe a good time to flip the intake. Will have to take a look and see if I have enough time before the Jamboree to flip the intake and change out alternator. Luckily I do have a spare but still not much time or miles on this alternator to be failing this soon. This is something we are going to have to keep current on the forum as there has now been a string of failures. Again, any tips? Like inline fuse, fuse in fuse box, connector or just info. Will start working on it tomorrow.

I will have a battery charger with me at the Jamboree so if a failure occurs we can keep-em running.

NOTE: my engine is still running fine as the battery is fully charged.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Would you believe?

Same part #, looks the same but when you to mount on engine won't fit. Between the '08 and '09 they added a lip inside of the mounting surface on the alt so it won't mount on the '08 engine. What a pain, I finally took it back out and notice a slight difference in the lip, about 1/16". Place a grinding stone on the hand grinder and hit a few times. Smooth with a flat file and slipped on but by that time I am not in my HAPPY place. Put it back together and started it up. NO CHARGE on the Dash gauge. Either my spare is bad or it is something else. I checked the wiring, fuse box, connections & behind the dash before I even started the work. SO any ideas? I will take the '08 alt into Tucson and have it checked. What a pain to change it out. I really don't like working on this stuff. I have enough projects. This is suppose to help transport me to my HAPPY Place and NOT away from it, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

WELL! I have had a shower, lunch and some HAPPY Juice (5 o'clock somewhere) and I am closer to my HAPPY Place. I will get this thing fixed and be at the Jamboree. I like to play not repair.

What did other people do about a replacement? Just in case the alt is bad and can't be repaired. No one has really shared a solution.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

WELL! I have had a shower, lunch and some HAPPY Juice (5 o'clock somewhere) and I am closer to my HAPPY Place. I will get this thing fixed and be at the Jamboree. I like to play not repair.

What did other people do about a replacement? Just in case the alt is bad and can't be repaired. No one has really shared a solution.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

did you disconnect batterry while engine is running? that would at least tell you if alt. was putting out juice.if it isnt engine would die.correct?

[rocmoc]

That worked with the old generators. I don't believe it works for alt. The battery has to be connected to the battery to grounded the alt. Someone please correct me/us. Anyone know for sure!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

This is what I have found on the net,

"Forgive the answer but you are looking at the electrical system of the car incorrectly. The battery does not "run" the car, it is merely a storage device for power to start the car. The power generated by the alternator is what runs the car and all the accessories when the engine runs. The alternator case is the ground and the large (usually red) wire on the back is your power. One of the smaller wires charges the battery, but once the engine is running, the battery is nothing but dead weight. For the record, in older style cars, it was acceptable practice to remove the battery cable to test the alternator. Today's newer electronic alternators can be seriously damaged by doing this, checking for proper alternator function is best left for the correct diagnostic equipment.

To answer the second part, the alternator grounds to the engine, the engine grounds to the frame and/or body which in turn acts as the ground for the rest of the components."

AND

http://knol.google.com/k/how-to-tell-if-your-car-alternator-is-bad#

The second link says to disconnect so who knows!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

WELL! I have had a shower, lunch and some HAPPY Juice (5 o'clock somewhere) and I am closer to my HAPPY Place. I will get this thing fixed and be at the Jamboree. I like to play not repair.

What did other people do about a replacement? Just in case the alt is bad and can't be repaired. No one has really shared a solution.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

If it is bad, you can send it to me and I'll replace the regulator for you, or you can buy one and do it yourself, just ask for the information and I'll send it to you. I did the same for Steve and you can read the thread.

The alternator needs a kick from the battery to get going, and a signal that the key is on, the two wires of the plug in or in Steve's case, it gets it's kick from the red battery cable and key on signal from the plug Via a resistor and the two wire plug in.

.

In my testing, once the engine is running, you can disconnect the battery and it will keep running on alternator power alone, this happened by accent to Lenny when his Master switch broke and dropped the battery out of the loop, He ran who knows how long, but after he shut down for a break, he couldn't start back up, so you can start the vehicle, turn the master off, and it should keep running if you alternator is working, I'll test this theory today.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

If my alternator goes, I'm going to buy a easily available low cost one from autozone or where ever and adapt it in. Here is the way I see it and correct me too if I'm wrong. The batterty will run the car if the alternator goes bad. For a while anyway. The alternator provides current to the battery until a certain voltage is reached where the alternator stops charging. If the battery is over charged, which it shouldn't be but lets say it is, The battery will run everything until it drops below the voltage limit of the regulator built into the alternator at which time the alternator starts feeding current again. If the battery is full but not over charged, that current goes to the battery but is drawn off the battery as fast as it is being feed current. If the car isn't using enough current to take up all the current from the alternator then the regulator in the alternator turns the current flow on and off as needed to maintain the battery voltage. So the battery acts as an accumulator. The hystersis of the system is probably only .1 or .2 volts or something like that. In other words if the hystersis is .2v and the battery (say 13.6 volts is full charge) voltage drops to 13.4, then the alternator starts to feed current and when the battery reaches 13.8 it stops and the battery runs things until the voltage reaches 13.4v again. So they both participate in running the car. This is what sounds logical to me. It could be that if the battery is disconnected then the alternator doesn't see any voltage in the system and thus the regulator in the alternator never shuts the current off and a higher voltage then the cars system can take gets feed into the system and things get damaged.

An alternator only does one thing, assuming it has an internal regulator, and that is to provide current. You feed it a 12v signal to energize it and it puts out current. Some alternators have a seperate wire to energize it while some use the main wire comming from the battery. If you know which wire does what then any alternator should be able to be adapted into the system without trouble. It will probably require a lmodified bracket and different belt but that should be quite easy and then your problem is solved for once and all.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

OK, I turned off the master switch and she kept running. SO, I pulled the positive cable off the battery. She kept running. Think the alt is fine so maybe the gauge?

Also did the headlight test. Nice and bright with no change when engine rpm is increased or decreased.

rocmoc n AZ / Mexico

[rocmoc]

Rick, looks like you were right on!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

If my alternator goes, I'm going to buy a easily available low cost one from autozone or where ever and adapt it in. Here is the way I see it and correct me too if I'm wrong. The batterty will run the car if the alternator goes bad. For a while anyway. The alternator provides current to the battery until a certain voltage is reached where the alternator stops charging. If the battery is over charged, which it shouldn't be but lets say it is, The battery will run everything until it drops below the voltage limit of the regulator built into the alternator at which time the alternator starts feeding current again. If the battery is full but not over charged, that current goes to the battery but is drawn off the battery as fast as it is being feed current. If the car isn't using enough current to take up all the current from the alternator then the regulator in the alternator turns the current flow on and off as needed to maintain the battery voltage. So the battery acts as an accumulator. The hystersis of the system is probably only .1 or .2 volts or something like that. In other words if the hystersis is .2v and the battery (say 13.6 volts is full charge) voltage drops to 13.4, then the alternator starts to feed current and when the battery reaches 13.8 it stops and the battery runs things until the voltage reaches 13.4v again. So they both participate in running the car. This is what sounds logical to me. It could be that if the battery is disconnected then the alternator doesn't see any voltage in the system and thus the regulator in the alternator never shuts the current off and a higher voltage then the cars system can take gets feed into the system and things get damaged.

An alternator only does one thing, assuming it has an internal regulator, and that is to provide current. You feed it a 12v signal to energize it and it puts out current. Some alternators have a seperate wire to energize it while some use the main wire comming from the battery. If you know which wire does what then any alternator should be able to be adapted into the system without trouble. It will probably require a lmodified bracket and different belt but that should be quite easy and then your problem is solved for once and all.

Lenny

The properly functioning alternator never never stops providing 14.2 (+or-) Volt power for the running vehicle, it charges the battery back up after it starts the engine and provides power for ALL electrical needs and the battery does nothing except recharge and filter some of the ripple voltage from the alternator. The normal battery voltage is 13.6, so it effectively becomes a load to the alternator. As more current is needed, it causes the the alternator voltage to sag which is sensed by the regulator, which then applies more field current to rotating armature which produces more magnetic field which causes the stater voltage to rise which brings the output of the alternator back to 14.2 (+or-) Volt, as less current is needed, same story, this all happens too fast to even be seen without test equipment. If the battery is removed from the system, it will make no difference until the battery is needed to start the vehicle and give the alternator it's initial kick to get the magnetic field started in the rotating armature.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

Rick, looks like you were right on!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

must be a blue moon,thats about how often i am right....

[rocmoc]

Hay today is a new day. Everything has gone Purrfect! Yeah we have cats and they both will be at the Jamboree. Everything I have touched today has gone the way it is suppose to. Put the Trooper back together to the point that will allow me to service the engine and install my rear diff with Lenny's kit. Repaired the tow hitch on the motorhome after towing the Dodge Ram for 7,000 miles. Points & condenser installed in my old Ford. Now off to a HOA meeting. We never do anything but eat & have drinks on the dues. One of the best HOAs have ever belong to.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

The properly functioning alternator never never stops providing 14.2 (+or-) Volt power for the running vehicle, it charges the battery back up after it starts the engine and provides power for ALL electrical needs and the battery does nothing except recharge and filter some of the ripple voltage from the alternator. The normal battery voltage is 13.6, so it effectively becomes a load to the alternator. As more current is needed, it causes the the alternator voltage to sag which is sensed by the regulator, which then applies more field current to rotating armature which produces more magnetic field which causes the stater voltage to rise which brings the output of the alternator back to 14.2 (+or-) Volt, as less current is needed, same story, this all happens too fast to even be seen without test equipment. If the battery is removed from the system, it will make no difference until the battery is needed to start the vehicle and give the alternator it's initial kick to get the magnetic field started in the rotating armature.

Kinarfi

Thanks for clearing that up Kinarfi. I understand what your saying and it does make since. Don't you think though that if the car were to draw more then the alternator can provide that the differance would come from the battery? I know cars are designed to not do that but it could happen when some kid installs a 6 million watt sterio system.

One thought for finding an alternator that would fit or fit with minor alterations say like what Rocmoc did to fit the 2009 to his 2008 would be to take the existing alternator down to lyour local auto parts store and get them to let you go thru their boxes to see if you can match it closely. I've done this with several items on my Trooper. So far I've have had O'Rileys, Auto Zone and NAPA allow me to go thru their inventory. Once one is found and it's enough wattage, figuring out how to wire it in to work with the Trooper should be easy.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

My alternator is an 85 amp alternator and I can't imagine that not being enough, I think we are going to have trouble finding an easy replacement and because I know how, I recommend replacing bearings when needed and the regulator, and that can be made into a simple operation by mounting the chip on a piece of aluminum for a heat sink and soldering some wires to the back of the brush holders and maybe sawing an embedded conductor in two. As for me, I don't see getting permission from Autozone or O'Rielly to rummage through all their boxes of alternator as a strong possibility, may you know the people down there and they'll let you do that. When I talked to Orem Auto Electric, they got on the phone and talked to some other people and ran down every number on the alternator and found nothing.

If anyone finds one, lets put it in the parts & pieces thread.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

I contacted a guy on craigslist that has an add going selling parts for chinese buggys including joyners about alternator and starter. I sent him the part numbers from the online parts manual and he said he has them. Alternator #S11-3701110BB for $120.00 and starter #S11-3708110GA for $110.00. He is supposed to be able to get the ECU and other parts also.He has the number 617 455-4590 and asks to be reached by text message.here's the link to the add

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/mcy/2928344823.html

[bruhaw]

I just had my starter completely rebuilt for $40 as the bushing was going bad and when disengaging making a screeching noise. Starter looks brand new now and installed and no noise. I am sure they can do alternator rebuilds for the same. So, check around with your local rebuilders and I am sure you can get them done.

[rocmoc]

I will be taking my 08 alt in tomorrw to be tested. We have an old-time gen / alt shop in Tucson. Has been there forever. Will post what they tell me. I have a spare start that I will sale and deliver to the Jamboree. I will bring it just in case!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

I will be taking my 08 alt in tomorrw to be tested. We have an old-time gen / alt shop in Tucson. Has been there forever. Will post what they tell me. I have a spare start that I will sale and deliver to the Jamboree. I will bring it just in case!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I have a spare also as well as a new spare alternator but think its best to hold on to them.That might be a good idea to start a thread for everyone thats comingto post any extra parts they want to sell and if someone interested they could brin g them along.

[rocmoc]

I went to the big city where them thar city folks have them fancy machines that can test an alt. WELL it was GOOD, nothing tha matter. I will post on another topic the testing process. Either a wire or guage.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

I went to the big city where them thar city folks have them fancy machines that can test an alt. WELL it was GOOD, nothing tha matter. I will post on another topic the testing process. Either a wire or guage.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Garsh darn glad to hear dem thar city folk didnt try to take advantage of a poor old country boy like youall.I havent talked like that since my last family reunion...

[rocmoc]

Ya know where I growed up, we turned the cheerleaders out to graze on the football field after the game!!!!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[plumber]

Garsh darn glad to hear dem thar city folk didnt try to take advantage of a poor old country boy like youall.I havent talked like that since my last family reunion...

Easy now (LOL)

[rocmoc]

Plumber, I have a good one about getting married in KY but you will have to come to the Jamboree to hear it!!! I have a Pilot friend who is now retired from UPS. He flew out of Louieville and would come home with a lot of local humor.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[plumber]

Plumber, I have a good one about getting married in KY but you will have to come to the Jamboree to hear it!!! I have a Pilot friend who is now retired from UPS. He flew out of Louieville and would come home with a lot of local humor.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I have a couple of them myself