2013 Hisun 700 not making power

[Andreas Ahrens]

Hi All,

Our Hisun is not making any power. Once you start to climb RPM's it almost sounds like the timing is out, it sputters and farts and doesn't want to climb RPM's at all. It starts fine though.

I checked and set the valves, they were a bit tight but not bad. The spark plug is very black. The exhaust valves are a real nightmare to get to fyi.

On the last service the dealer put the wrong plug in, so I'm switching that back to stock as soon as we get one. I'm also thinking the air filter should be checked/cleaned. 

Any other things to check?

[Travis]

black plug means the engine is running rich, too much fuel in the mixture, or not enough air in the mix... check and clean the air filter.

[Andreas Ahrens]

Yes I understand that, and it will be checked. But if we rule out the air filter, what's the next thing it could be?

[Idadog]

Is this year fuel injected or carb?  If carb clean and check float level.  

[Andreas Ahrens]

This one is fuel injected.

[kenfain]

It could easily be something simple, like a blockage. Since it starts, and runs good. 

Check the basics first. Crankcase ventilation, fuel return line, breather.

[Andreas Ahrens]

Changing the spark plug  to the right plug made a big difference. There is lots of low end power, smooth. A little less high end power but it isn't so rough at the high end. as it was but still not great. It does not heat up as fast or as much but still smells rich when it starts and is harder to start warmed up. Also still will stall if you let it idle to open a gate in gear. Seems like it won't stall if you remember to put it in neutral.

Next I guess is pull the air filter, as it's still not running great.

[kenfain]

If it is CPU controlled, which sounds likely. I'd also check the sensor that controls the air/fuel mix. Give the element a good cleaning. Using the approved cleaning method of course. 

Find the reason for that black plug. And you'll likely solve most, if not all of your problem. You just have to find out what's happening to the air/fuel mix.

[Andreas Ahrens]

Where is that sensor located? I imagine contact cleaner on a rag would work? I'm guessing it should be located between the air filter and the throttle body somewhere, or on the throttle body.

[kenfain]

18 minutes ago, Andreas Ahrens said:

Where is that sensor located? I imagine contact cleaner on a rag would work? I'm guessing it should be located between the air filter and the throttle body somewhere, or on the throttle body.

It should be somewhere near the breather. Before the throttle body. And should be the only electronics there, in that part of the system. So just follow the tube, looking for wires. 

There's a very real possibility of contamination on these things. You need to be very careful not to touch any part of the element. Doing that will probably ruin it. So...no rags. You should get some mass air flow cleaner. It's available at the auto parts, and probably Walmart too. 

You carefully remove it, and hose it down. Holding it element up, or sideways, so any loosened crud doesn't flow onto the element. Making sure not to let anything touch the element. No wiping, not even if it looks like it needs it. Then let it dry for a few minutes. Then reinstall. 

The whole process takes about the same amount of time as it took to write it. Probably be a good time to do the car too lol. It's that easy.

[kenfain]

I should also add. Only the mass air flow cleaner is suitable for this. Do NOT  use carb cleaner, electrical contact cleaner etc. The proper cleaner is cheap enough. And the others will leave residue. Residue is as bad as crud. 

What's not cheap is a new mass air flow sensor. They're very sensitive. Not necessarily delicate, but sensitive. And expensive in most cases. 

[Andreas Ahrens]

I have "Air Intake Medic" by Gunk and some other air intake cleaner, I assume this is the stuff?

[kenfain]

1 hour ago, Andreas Ahrens said:

I have "Air Intake Medic" by Gunk and some other air intake cleaner, I assume this is the stuff?

It should say that it's for mass air flow sensors specifically. Some cleaners are for cleaning the throttle body through the intake. I'm not familiar with the one you mentioned. I always use the cheap stuff. It's right in the title on the can. Yours might be in the fine print. 

[Andreas Ahrens]

Well the spark plug did the trick, I'm shocked it's running so much better but it is. The wrong plug went bad quick and now it's running good again. I will still try to clean the MAF and air filter next time I have a chance.

[kenfain]

32 minutes ago, Andreas Ahrens said:

Well the spark plug did the trick, I'm shocked it's running so much better but it is. The wrong plug went bad quick and now it's running good again. I will still try to clean the MAF and air filter next time I have a chance.

That's good news! However, spark plugs usually go bad for a reason. It sounds like you have an underlying issue that still needs to be resolved. 

On the bright side of this, is the spark plug will give you an indication of what the issue is. By looking at how it's burning, you can tell what's going on there. If the problem comes up again, for the sake of long term engine health, and reliability, you'll need to find out why. 

[Andreas Ahrens]

Well it started running lousy again after a few hours. It seems like it just wants to foul plugs. I did the air filter and  I cleaned the air temp/pressure sensor. Still no luck with this one. I'm at a bit of a loss on to what to check next.

[kenfain]

When you say that it's fouling the plugs. Is it wet fouling, or dry? Is it possible to post a clear, well lit, magnified picture of the fouling?

How used is this motor? Any idea of how many hours?

[Andreas Ahrens]

The plug was quite wet and black, running rich it seems. Sorry it's at the cabin, I can't take a photo now. It doesnt see many hours though, I'd guess under 500.

[kenfain]

That's okay, a picture isn't absolutely necessary. Does it smoke, or use oil? Does it spend a lot of time running at idle?

Have you checked for fault codes? It's probably running rich, but without a code reader, it'll be a tedious process of elimination. 

 

[Andreas Ahrens]

Is there an OBD 2 port? If so I can plug a reader in as I have one. I wasn't aware there was one.

It doesn't seem to smoke or use oil, hard to notice if it uses oil as we don't check that often since it doesn't see many hours.

[kenfain]

It'll have some kind of code reader connection. Not being an owner myself, I have no idea where it might be. Unfortunately, I'm almost certain that it isn't OBD2. Most likely it's a Delphi type.

The Delphi is a pre OBD2 reader, and doesn't support as many pids, or sensors. So it's a simpler system. But each manufacturer had it's own style of plug. The OBD2 was made mandatory, to standardize the whole messy arrangement. 

The factory sells a code reader for big money. Something in the $300 dollar range IIRC. But if it is indeed a Delphi. I believe that the readers are all pretty much the same, but use different plugs for different makes.

The generic reader kit is quite reasonably priced, and comes with some variety of plugs. But you'd need to research which one is required. Those that don't come with the kit, are sold separately. But you would need someone more familiar to confirm this, as well as compatibility. 

Some brands of vehicles, including s×s buggies like these. Will use other methods of acquiring codes. For example, the newer models will cause the dashboard clock to blink a designated sequence. Each fault code has it's own sequence. You just count the blinks. 

Not being an owner of one of these myself. I'm not aware of anything like that for your vehicle. But while researching which code reader will fit. You should inquire as to the possibility of that other cheaper, low tech method. 

If all of this sounds like a lot of trouble. You could just start eliminating possible faulty sensors, and other possibilities. I'd start by replacing any vacuum hoses, the crankcase ventilation, and fuel vapor return line. Then pull out the upstream, and downstream exhaust sensors.

One of the last guys that had a similar problem. Actually found exhaust issues were responsible for his trouble. He found this by a visual inspection, while pulling the exhaust sensors. 

It'll take a multimeter, and some time. And some sensors will just have to be replaced, since testing is not always an option. Typically they're pretty cheap. But it's all certainly doable. 

[Andreas Ahrens]

OK, I'm thinking the same, start checking the hoses for blockage and check the sensors for resistance.

How do you mean he found exhaust issues? Holes in the exhaust maybe? I will take a look there as well.

[kenfain]

13 minutes ago, Andreas Ahrens said:

How do you mean he found exhaust issues? Holes in the exhaust maybe? I will take a look there as well.

Yes it turned out to be a hole in the exhaust. Found it by accident, while trying to see if the sensors were interchangeable. 

 

[Andreas Ahrens]

My father in law just identified the spark plug cap was super loose, we may need to just replace the cap. Cross our fingers that it's as simple as this. Maybe it's working its way off somehow.

[kenfain]

That's certainly a possibility, and I hope that's the problem. If it's truly loose, it could at the least, be a significant contributor to your issue. 

[Dan B]

No one mentioned the fuel injector might be leaking excess gas into the cylinder.  To me at least, that would explain the wet spark plug.  And it also explains the black coating on the plug, and the reason it ran good when you installed a new plug.

[kenfain]

Yup, that's another possibility. And probably easily checked. 

[Andreas Ahrens]

Well we've done more troubleshooting and gotten no where. We ordered a new injector as we are still having issues. It tends to run a bit better when cold but quickly flops and loses power. I tried seafoam on the injector and blowing it out with air to no success. We are also replacing the fuel pump, as the line cracked on the top long ago, but I don't think that's it as it is getting plenty of fuel.

[kenfain]

Any luck on finding a way to check for trouble codes?

[Andreas Ahrens]

No sir. If this doesn't work I may go back and do valves another time, otherwise my guess is CDI or coil? Or we take it in to a dealer.