TRYING TO DECIDE BETWEEN?????

[Myron]

Hey Guys,

I'm in the market for a side by side... I'm looking at three different ones.. the Can Am Commander 1000, the Polaris RZR and the Joyner Trooper T2... Yeah, I know the Trooper is Chinese, but from all I am reading they are pretty decent and can be had at a fair price... I have a guy I can trade my old 78 Jeep for an 09 T4 that is in excellent shape.. I dont really want a 4 seater though...

I'm looking for pros and cons on each unit so if you got a good story I would love to hear it!

Thanks,

Myron

[ricksrb]

Hey Guys,

I'm in the market for a side by side... I'm looking at three different ones.. the Can Am Commander 1000, the Polaris RZR and the Joyner Trooper T2... Yeah, I know the Trooper is Chinese, but from all I am reading they are pretty decent and can be had at a fair price... I have a guy I can trade my old 78 Jeep for an 09 T4 that is in excellent shape.. I dont really want a 4 seater though...

I'm looking for pros and cons on each unit so if you got a good story I would love to hear it!

Thanks,

Myron

I cant say much about the other ones but I love the Trooper.I have the T4 and yes its longer,weighs more but nice to have the xtra room for the kids and others.I have climped hills that I have seen rzrs,and others not been able to climb.Yes it has its problems but which make does not.For me its perfect because of price,and capabilities.

[rocmoc]

First , WELCOME!

IMHO

For the person with a unlimited budget,

Number 1, Can Am Commander 1000

# 2 RZR

#3 Trooper

For the person with budget,

Number 1, RZR

#2 Trooper

#3 Ca Am

For the person with a hole in his budget, (You will end up spending the same as the person with the budget after upgrades to the Trooper)

Number 1, RZR

#2 Trooper

#3 Ca Am

rocmoc n AZ

[Myron]

Thanks for the replies,

Rick, Have you had any major problems with the trooper? What about getting parts or service? I did like the makup of the suspension on the trooper.. Off the shelf heim joints are a plus!.. Is yours street legal?

Roc Moc, I am prolly going to sell my 78 CJ7 restored jeep and also sell my 750 brute force.. I should have enough cash to do whatever I want.. Just supper worried about parts for the trooper and plus I would wrather have a 2 seater...

Myron

[rocmoc]

IMHO, parts are not going to be a problem. There are enough GREAT Dealers/Vendors on our site keeping us in parts. PLUS there are a few us that are reaching out and finding mainstream USA parts for solutions of problems/failures. I believe in the future one of us will even step up and to a engine/trans retrofit to a more mainstream manufacturer.

Here is a link to a forum discussion about the RZR vs the Commando. http://www.ridingarizona.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31209

Bottom line is, if you are mechanical inclined, You can't go wrong with any of them if you buy right.

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

Thanks for the replies,

Rick, Have you had any major problems with the trooper? What about getting parts or service? I did like the makup of the suspension on the trooper.. Off the shelf heim joints are a plus!.. Is yours street legal?

Roc Moc, I am prolly going to sell my 78 CJ7 restored jeep and also sell my 750 brute force.. I should have enough cash to do whatever I want.. Just supper worried about parts for the trooper and plus I would wrather have a 2 seater...

Myron

I did have a proplem with it cutting out occasionally,I would have to rev it up a couple times and then it would be fine.Sometimes it would not do it and then there were times it did it 4 or 5 times while out for a few hours.I checked everything,changed out a few things and ended up changing out the ECU and the last 3 trips out its nbeen fine.Those hilss I spoke about was done with the problem so it never stranded me or left out to do any repairs while out.It has always got me back.Street legal depends on where you are.I live in California and it is not street legal here.I also have a vacation home in Lake Havasu Arizona and in that state it is street legal.There are other states where it is street legal and i am sure others here will let you know that.Sounds like you are dead set on not wanting the T4.I have found few trails thus far that i could not go that the RZRS,Rhinos or T2s,would go.As mentioned before there are places i can go they cant.It depends on what you want to do with it.

[rocmoc]

Something else I want to say is I view my Trooper more in a class with the Suzuki Samurai. We are lucky, I think they planned it that way, to fit the Trooper just in the weight class for a UTV for safety & emission stds. But we are much heavier, wider & longer than the mainstream UTVs. If they had planned/provided more horsepower & stronger drive components, they would have hit a home run even with the increased weight & size. The way it is they hit a stand up double. Better quality and it could have been a triple but NEVER a home run without the power & stronger drive components. This increase size & weight does make the Trooper more difficult to transport, so plan ahead.

My Trooper is street legal in AZ and I take advantage of it. I am licensed & insured for street & dirt. In AZ you also required to have a off-road sticker besides the license but it is recognized by other states, CA, UT & NM (just a few). In AZ, any ATV, UTV, Sandrail or Dune Buggy can be licensed and driven on the street. Sure makes it nice for going to the local trails. AND for building Kit Cars. Maybe someday a Cobra is in my future.

Last note. I don't know where you live but it seems that the more dampest/moisture where one lives plays havoc with the electrical. I have had no problems but it is bone dry where I live and I am very very careful when I wash it. I don't play in the mud or river either. Also the rubber boots, ALL of them electrical & suspension, are not holding up. Soon I will have to go thu and change ALL of them or start paying the price of neglect. Guess I better add this to my 2011 things I am going to do.

Good luck,

rocmoc n AZ

[Quig]

I'm really new to utv's. But, I bought my 2008 trooper 2 in july 2010, had 550 miles on it. paid less than 1/2 of what the new rzr cost. I have back problems so couldn't do 4 wheeler. Decided to try joyner, at that price. I have had 2 problems that slowed me down in the mts. blown fan fuse, had 1 with me, & brake caliper bolt broke,jamming inside wheel. Was able to get it loose,wired up, rode home. I have put close to 2000 miles on it. And yes I have done some upgrades, "because I wanted to". & I like doing things to it. I feel like I can do things to it, make it my own.. If money no object, would probably go with can-am, or new joyner, if available. So far I really love my trooper, but never had others to compare.. Good luck, & Merry Christmas,,,, Quig

[Myron]

Actually I really like trooper, mainly the T2 though.. I volunteer to go on SAR missions and I like the trailer you can get for them. I found a guy that has a nice 2009 T4 with only 300 miles on it that I could prolly trade straight across for my Jeep.. My kid has a KAwi 90 ATV that were prolly gonna trade for a kids RZR 170. This is why I would like the T2 instead... Whats the top speed on your T4 and does it get there in reasonable time? I am a wrench turner and enoy working on my own stuff.

I'm still totally up in the air, the RZR is narrow enough to get loaded on smaller trailers which is a big plus, The Can am is stupid fast, The trooper can be street legal and it has automotive grade components. I wish I could find a nice T2 with upgrades and low miles, I would do a swap quick-like!

Myron

[ricksrb]

I'm really new to utv's. But, I bought my 2008 trooper 2 in july 2010, had 550 miles on it. paid less than 1/2 of what the new rzr cost. I have back problems so couldn't do 4 wheeler. Decided to try joyner, at that price. I have had 2 problems that slowed me down in the mts. blown fan fuse, had 1 with me, & brake caliper bolt broke,jamming inside wheel. Was able to get it loose,wired up, rode home. I have put close to 2000 miles on it. And yes I have done some upgrades, "because I wanted to". & I like doing things to it. I feel like I can do things to it, make it my own.. If money no object, would probably go with can-am, or new joyner, if available. So far I really love my trooper, but never had others to compare.. Good luck, & Merry Christmas,,,, Quig

Quig,

You have been enjoying it,1500 miles in 5 months..Thats great you have been able to do that.I got mine one year ago this month with about 9 miles on it and only racked up about 550 since.I enjoy tinkering around with it.Its my first UTV and only had a couple Baja bugs and a fiberglass dune buggy for street use many years ago.Back in the late 70's and early 80's,I would buy VW's fix em up and resell em.I had my own 18 wheeler and travel as far back as Oklahoma City and buy 7 or 8 of them and bring em back to So Cal and fix em up or use em for spare parts.Working on my Trooper takes me back to those days, I really enjoy it.

[rocmoc]

Actually I really like trooper, mainly the T2 though.. I volunteer to go on SAR missions and I like the trailer you can get for them. I found a guy that has a nice 2009 T4 with only 300 miles on it that I could prolly trade straight across for my Jeep.. My kid has a KAwi 90 ATV that were prolly gonna trade for a kids RZR 170. This is why I would like the T2 instead... Whats the top speed on your T4 and does it get there in reasonable time? I am a wrench turner and enoy working on my own stuff.

I'm still totally up in the air, the RZR is narrow enough to get loaded on smaller trailers which is a big plus, The Can am is stupid fast, The trooper can be street legal and it has automotive grade components. I wish I could find a nice T2 with upgrades and low miles, I would do a swap quick-like!

Myron

Acceleration & Top Speed is pretty close between the T4 & T2. Accel & Top Sd is dependent on the tires & rims you run or upgrade to. 1st is unusable with the stock rims & tires, even geared lower than an old 40s/50s pickup with a granny gear. I upgraded to 15" rims & 31X10.50 tires. I still take off in 2nd gear but first is now usable for crawling conditions. Someone correct me if they believe differently. With my 15" setup, accel is like a 60s/70s VW bug. My top speed is around 70+ mph. Stock setup accel is slow because the gears are so low and gear ratios are too close together. You shift and there is little difference. You can jump a gear and be fine. Top speed stock is around 60 mph.

rocmoc n AZ

[Jarrad]

With 30's I could do close to 70. More than fast enough. I am biased to the Joyner so my opinion probably won't matter. But I have driven all of the utvs except a can am and Joyner is it for me. I like to have more control over every aspect of the buggy and the manual trans does it for me.

[Myron]

With 30's I could do close to 70. More than fast enough. I am biased to the Joyner so my opinion probably won't matter. But I have driven all of the utvs except a can am and Joyner is it for me. I like to have more control over every aspect of the buggy and the manual trans does it for me.

I just talked to Mike over there and sent him the pics and 411 on my jeep...

Myron

[Myron]

Hey Guys,

What do you think about this one? I can trade it straight across...

http://americanmotorcycletrading.autorevo.com/popupviewer.aspx?iid=2900237&pID=29893409

Myron

[rocmoc]

It is one of the early ones with the gas tank up front. May even be one of the first 50. I can see it has the brake upgrade. Make sure it has the drive line upgrade. The orginal drive line had U-joints and was junk. The upgrade has CV Joints. You can tell it been in the moisture from the rust on the exhaust manifold. Looks like it does have some good mods & upgrades. My concern would be the electrical connections.

Good luck!

rocmoc n AZ

[Myron]

Rocmoc,

In the Pics it looks like it has CV's on all the axles with decent boots. Are the Ujoints your refering to on the front driveshaft? And What upgrade was done on the brakes? When you say first 50, what year would that be? It does have front and rear winches and the radiator looks like its been relocated to keep it out of the mud. He is adversing it as a "Mud Machine" so I'm sure thats where it spent alot of its time. I like the rocks and trails and dont like to go mudding so I would prolly relocate the radiator back to its original position. It alo looks like the original rocker panels were replaced with some homeade rock sliders... Do you know of anyone that has replacement body panels? Do you think I would be hanging myself if I traded my jeep for it? If I traded for it, I would get to keep my Kawi 750 Brute ATV where as If I wanted a newer unit or the Commander I would have to sell it. IF it doesnt work out, what do you think I could flip it for?.... Also, Why do you think all the ones for sale have so few miles on them? This one has 1500 but almost all of them I see are less than 500 miles.

Thanks again for all the input!

Myron

[Jarrad]

Myron, that unit is at my shop and you can guarantee that when something is sold through us it goes into the shop when it first arrives and we go over it front to back and make sure it is in tip top shape. We pride ourselves on selling a quality unit and stand behind our work. When I get to work on Monday I will personally check it over again. By the way nice jeep, mike showed me pictures of it today.

[Jarrad]

The u joints he is refering to is the rear driveshaft. There currently is no front ds upgrade

[Myron]

Snowman,

I appreciate the confidence booster. I have actually been to your shop a few years ago when you had a lot full of the Troopers. Thats what first got me interested in the brand. I just sent an email to Mike, but he is out till Monday... Do you know the year model of this unit? My biggest concern is that if I'm not happy with it, I cant sell it for what I could have the Jeep and that would put me deeper in the hole when it comes to paying cash for a Can Am. What accessories do you still have for it? I saw that you mentioned your Joyner Biased, but seriously, what about the motor? how reliable are they? What if say the disty or ignition module goes out? water pump? alternator? Would I be better off finding one off an import car and making my own brackets? Also, I think I saw that the stock alternator is only like 160 watts. Is that true? Heck, I have a model airplane electric motor that is not even a 4th of the size but can put out 1500 watts and pull 80 amps..

Sorry for all the questions, I jut like to be comfortable with what I'm doing before I make a large trade or purchase.

Myron

[Jarrad]

Most all of our upgrades we make in-house. We have some Joyner upgrades left and I have come across enough parts to put together 7 of our full hydraulic ram ps kits. I was having them made by PSC steering bur because of thier insurance could no longer sell kits. All superior quality stuff. The possibilities are endless. Why don't you come on up to the shop I will put it on a lift and go over it with you front to back.

[Jarrad]

I have successfully ran 6 piaa 5100 series lights without a problem. Parts availability is a non issue as far as I am concerned

[Myron]

Hey Snowman,

I will prolly take you up on that offer.. I need to make a run to Dallas anyway soon... I found Chery engine MFG on line and they offer parts, but I could not find the 1.1 liter motor on their site. Also, the only one close was a 1.5 liter and rated at 71 horsepower...

Myron

[Jarrad]

Hey Snowman,

I will prolly take you up on that offer.. I need to make a run to Dallas anyway soon... I found Chery engine MFG on line and they offer parts, but I could not find the 1.1 liter motor on their site. Also, the only one close was a 1.5 liter and rated at 71 horsepower...

Myron

http://cheryengine.en.gasgoo.com/auto-products/16799.html here is your 1.1

[Myron]

Snowman,

That doesnt look like the same engine.. The one in the link has the intake manifold up over the top of the motor. The one on your website has the intake curved down and its much lower on the engine. Maybe they only have the 2011 engines listed but it appears its not the same animal.. Also, the engine in the link is rated at 54KW which is about 72 horsepower.

Myron

[Jarrad]

It is the same motor. Joyner changed the ex manifold to a header and made a stub intake to flip it down and extend it out a bit. I have been working on these motors for years. I know what it is. Half these guys watched me put the timing belt back on my motor in the middle of nowhere

[Jarrad]

And Joyner used to claim 75 hp on the motor. Seems about right with the tube header. Although I hear they are changing to the stock cast iron manifold fir more low end torque

[rocmoc]

It is the same motor. Joyner changed the ex manifold to a header and made a stub intake to flip it down and extend it out a bit. I have been working on these motors for years. I know what it is. Half these guys watched me put the timing belt back on my motor in the middle of nowhere

Yes he did and was impressive given where we were!

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

And Joyner used to claim 75 hp on the motor. Seems about right with the tube header. Although I hear they are changing to the stock cast iron manifold fir more low end torque

Hay, more Low end torque. I WANT ONE!

rocmoc n AZ

[Myron]

Merry Christmas Everyone!!

Snowman, Cool, I do like the intake up higher though... Maybe a future mod!.. I have seen some some pretty impressive turbo mods as well.. Not sayin that I need that, but cool none the less...

Myron

[Jarrad]

Merry Christmas Everyone!!

Snowman, Cool, I do like the intake up higher though... Maybe a future mod!.. I have seen some some pretty impressive turbo mods as well.. Not sayin that I need that, but cool none the less...

Myron

Myron, I pulled the buggy in today, it does have the upgraded driveshaft and re-inforced diff mount, we sold this unit new to the customer who owned it, we installed the front tube fenders and sliders, to answer your questions you had, it has a 4000lb warn winch in the front and a 8500lb Ramsey winch in the rear.

Jarrad