Joyner 2014 Renegade 1100 dies after warm up

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Bought new in 2014 Renegade 1100.       Life got in the way and only put 80 miles on it up till now.  During that 5 year time the fuel would go bad and I would drain the tank and refill. Always used 100% gas [never ethanol].  It is garage kept and never spent a night outside.

Now that I have time to use it, I am having issues.   It will start and run fine for about 10 minutes, and then it will start to miss and then eventually die. After letting it sit for about 30 minutes is will start back up, and start doing the same thing again.

I have put new plugs in it and have replaced the fuel filter. 

Any suggestions on what this problem could be?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Steve B.

[Travis]

What type of ignition system does it use?

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Electronic ignition 

[Dan B]

Wow!   With so little to go on, it could be almost anything.  Does the fuel pump pressure drop off when this happens?  Could be an internal fuel pump issue.  How's the compression on the cylinders when it shuts down?  Could a valve be hanging up after the engine gets warm?  I would rule out any fuses - when they fail, it's permanent - no restart after cooldown.  It sure points to a heat problem. 

Seems like some Joyners have transient issues.  Once, my Joyner's idle went towards 3,000 RPM before I shut it down  Did it a few times while I was troubleshooting the issue, then it went away before I could isolate the problem.  Another time, it would shut down immedeiately after start up.  Again, problem went away before I could isolate the issue.  The battery wasn't fully charged but it was charged enought to start the engine with to problems.  After I charged the battery, problem went away.  Made no sense to me.  Neither has reoccurred.  Leaning toward the Idle Air Control.

[Travis]

Could be a coil failing after it gets hot. 

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Thank you for the input.

I was hoping with such little mileage that it would be something fuel related that I could fix myself.

By what you guys are saying, it sounds like it is going to be beyond my skill level to address.

 Hate to see it sit at the local mechanics shop for weeks, but looks like that may be my only option.

[kenfain]

Based on your description, it sounds like a classic case of varnish build-up in the carb. See if you can keep it running by nursing it with a light shot of starting fluid, every time it tries to die. If that works, then it's a varnish build-up.

    Sometimes a carburetor rebuild will fix it. Sometimes it takes a new carb. Kits are cheap enough to try that before buying a new carb.

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

It is fuel injected. Today I am going to try to run a good amount of fuel injector cleaner thru it while it is running.

 If I can start seeing even a little difference in its running, at least that will tell me where the problem is.

I called every atv dealer in a 75 mile radius this week, and none of them were even willing to take a look at it because it is a Joyner.  So therefore I guess I am stuck trying to figure this out on my own. I even offered the Polaris dealer service department double his normal labor rate to work  on it.   His reply was that he just wasn't comfortable working on it at any price. 

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Do you think that the fuel injector cleaner will help?

[Dan B]

Keep us posted on your progress as some of us Joyner riders might run across the same problem in the future.

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Added the seafoam concentrated fuel injector cleaner to the gas today.   Mixed it at about 3 times the strength as recommended on the bottle.

Started it up and let it run between an idle and 3500 rpm.   {Had it in neutral just sitting still.}  Ran for 12 minutes before it started to sputter and run rough, but did not die.    Continued running it for a total of 30 minutes.

During that 30 minutes it would sometimes die, but would start right back up after turning the key off and back on to let the fuel pump engage for the new start.  This is an improvement from the way that it had been running, but the problem is definitely not fixed yet.

I am going to let it sit and run again today.    The same process as yesterday.  I am hoping that the cleaner having been run thru the system has set in there overnight and done a little more cleaning.

I am also going to the local parts store today to see if they have a fuel pump that will match up to the original. If they do I will replace it today. 

[kenfain]

Yes, even though it's fuel injected its still the same problem. That gas gets old, and sometimes it'll gum things up. The fuel injector cleaner should help to clean it out for the most part. Sometimes it'll do the job completely. Other times it'll always die occasionally. 

The problem shouldn't get any worse though, as long as you keep running it. So my advice would be to take it out and run it as much as possible. Keep putting the treatment in it. Run a few tanks through it. Sitting there idling, and occasionally revving it, is okay. But it really needs to be driven.  See if it'll fix itself, because otherwise it'll need parts. And make sure you've got fuel stabilizer in it for storage.

[Travis]

To add to what kenfain said about storage, I will advise you to not put the name brand Sta-bil in it, I've seen it many times on small engine carbs, and v-twin Briggs where the owner added it, and after a month or so, it acts like ethanol, and crystallized inside the fuel system.

At some point with a fresh tank of gas add some Berrymans b12 chemtool.

whenever the Mule started to run rough in previous years, add a bit of it to the fuel tank and cleared it up after a few days driving.

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Thanks guys for the info.  

It gives me some confidence that what I am doing is on the right path.

Never heard of the Berrymans, but I will definitely get some and use it when needed.

[Dan B]

According to the MSDS Berryman's injector cleaner using H.E.S.T. is acetone.  It is in some of their fuel system cleaners.  Seafoam fuel injector cleaner uses Benzene.  I presume both are safe otherwise a lot of customers would have put them out of business.  Gas engines of any kind should be run occasionally to promote the consumption of fuel before it goes stale and also to keep the engine lubricated.

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

Installed the new fuel pump yesterday.   Made the problem worse.   

With the new fuel pump it will only idle for about 10 seconds and then dies.   It dies if you give it any throttle.

This is the one that I bought

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WANWU Inline High Pressure Fuel Pump Universal Replacement 0580464038 0580464070

 

[Gerry]

You really don't need to take the buggy to a sxs dealer. These are very basic 4 cyl car engines. Any decent mechanic worth his salt sould be able to work on it. The downside for them is that it has a computer, but no OBD port for diagnostics. The fuel pump needs to put out about 70 lbs pressure for fuel injection. There is a free downloadable service manual for this engine also.

[WCF]

Check the fuel pressure when it dies could be a bad pump.

 

Chris

6618228111

[Dan B]

There is an OBDII port located at the end of a cable behind the passenger seat (R2).  But it uses a proprietary protocol that no common OBDII reader can read That I can find.  I have two OBDII readers and neither one can read the data even though 12vdc power is available.  Fuel pressure is 49.8 psi, 50 psi is close enough for  government work .

[Tn. Renegade Rider]

It's fixed!

It wouldn't even start with the new fuel pump so I reinstalled the old fuel pump.   It started [ with the old pump reinstalled ]  but still had the same problems as before.

I continued looking for a problem and found a burnt 10 amp fuse.   Replaced the fuse with a 20 amp [ the only one that I had handy].

It started again but still had the same problem of not running long or smoothly.

I then installed the new fuel pump again, and it ran great!

So in conclusion :  It looks like it was a two part problem and solution. New fuel pump and replace a burnt fuse.

Thanks everyone for your info and help.

It sure does feel good having my machine running again !!!