Hisun 550 engine sputters, no power.

[Randy Stevens]

Hey all, I bought a Hisun 550 back in June of 2019. After 6 weeks of ownership, this machine took to sputtering when started and under power. I checked everything I could think of before I took it back to place of purchase....(rural king), since it had a one year warranty.   They kept it almost two months stating they were waiting to get info from Hisun to rectify the issue (supposedly faulty drivers seat belt). I was told by the tech that they replace seat belt harness and cured the problem. It did! Ran just fine again for almost a year and now the very same issue has returned. After doing a little investigating on my own, I noticed that rural king did not replace the seat belt harness at all.  The wires to seat belt connector was cut and spliced and taped back together. Now I’m not real sure what the real problem is as that tech is no longer with company and can’t seem to locate the past work order for my machine.  Hisun customer service is non existent . I’m on my own and begging for help. Im mechanically inclined but if this is an electricical issue, I’m screwed! No warranty left. Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

[Travis]

it's possible they replaced it, and splicing was required to connect it, though you'd think there would be a connection to the harness....

 I don't know for sure, but i know it can be done on mower safety switches, is to connect the two wires going to the switch directly, and see if the problem goes away.

[Randy Stevens]

Travis, No they didn’t replace harness, I was there the day he spliced it and watched him do it.  They thought they’d do some troubleshooting on it while I was present to try bypassing the seat belt safety device.   After 8 weeks in that shop, they told me they replaces entire harness,  in which they didn’t!  I won’t take it back to that location again as I believe in honesty and they weren’t. I appreciate your opinion but it doesn’t apply on that info. Thanks again!

[kenfain]

Sounds like you'll have to check a few things to try to narrow the problem down. I'd start by checking fuel pressure, if there's an easy way to get to the fuel rail. Check it while driving as well. Next up would probably be whatever passes for a throttle position sensor. Of course if you can't do the pressure test, you could start with the throttle position sensor. But those seem most likely to me. Does it have any trouble codes showing?

[Randy Stevens]

Everything on instrument panel checks out ok, I need to take it somewhere to do a diagnostic on it as it does have a plug in for that. Rural king tech told me t was a seat belt safety switch issue in which he said they replaced entirely harness & it wasn’t. My fault for not checking his work. Machine starts up and runs great for a few minutes, then acts like it’s running out of fuel or had governor control. That’s exactly how they are suppose to act when drivers seat belt isn’t connected. (Safety feature). The tech told me this can be by-passed but would void warrant if applied. Now the warranty is gone, but so is tech who told me this, so I have no idea what he meant and stuck at square one with the very same issue.  It  is getting fuel, everything else checks out for now. Thanks for your input, very much appreciated 

[rtate1050]

I found out the hard way that if the seat belt isn't buckled, the engine runs , but in "limp mode", which is sputtering and low power. so it makes sense that your problem is in the seat belt system. Did you check the passenger belt ?  There must be some sort of weight sensor under the seat so that it engages the seat belt system.  Maybe that's it.

I know that you shouldn't , but I'm handicapped and find it difficult to fasten the belt , so I buckled it behind the seat . Works fine . 

[kenfain]

2 hours ago, Randy Stevens said:

Everything on instrument panel checks out ok, I need to take it somewhere to do a diagnostic on it as it does have a plug in for that. Rural king tech told me t was a seat belt safety switch issue in which he said they replaced entirely harness & it wasn’t. My fault for not checking his work. Machine starts up and runs great for a few minutes, then acts like it’s running out of fuel or had governor control. That’s exactly how they are suppose to act when drivers seat belt isn’t connected. (Safety feature). The tech told me this can be by-passed but would void warrant if applied. Now the warranty is gone, but so is tech who told me this, so I have no idea what he meant and stuck at square one with the very same issue.  It  is getting fuel, everything else checks out for now. Thanks for your input, very much appreciated 

You mentioned in your original post, that the tech did some kind of splice/repair of the seatbelt circuit. In light of your statement about the feel of being governed, and also rtate1050's post above. I think I'd take a hard look at that splice work. You might very well be in limp mode. Possibly try jiggling the splice when it's driving. Maybe tie a string to it, so you can give it a good jiggling. If there's any change in the performance, you've likely found the problem. 

[Randy Stevens]

2 hours ago, rtate1050 said:

I found out the hard way that if the seat belt isn't buckled, the engine runs , but in "limp mode", which is sputtering and low power. so it makes sense that your problem is in the seat belt system. Did you check the passenger belt ?  There must be some sort of weight sensor under the seat so that it engages the seat belt system.  Maybe that's it.

I know that you shouldn't , but I'm handicapped and find it difficult to fasten the belt , so I buckled it behind the seat . Works fine . 

Yes, I tried buckling both belts, no difference. Thanks for your input! Every bit helps!😉

[Randy Stevens]

58 minutes ago, kenfain said:

You mentioned in your original post, that the tech did some kind of splice/repair of the seatbelt circuit. In light of your statement about the feel of being governed, and also rtate1050's post above. I think I'd take a hard look at that splice work. You might very well be in limp mode. Possibly try jiggling the splice when it's driving. Maybe tie a string to it, so you can give it a good jiggling. If there's any change in the performance, you've likely found the problem. 

Yep, I tried that! Basically it is the same thing as buckling the seat belt, provides contact to a sensor somewhere in the yards of wiring on machine. I’ve jiggled the hell out of it .    Lol. Thanks bro!!

[rtate1050]

Try finding the splice (or splices ) in the system and take them apart and solder them instead of a crimp connector or whatever else that they used.  Maybe voltage has to be in a specific range .

Also , as a general rule , the type of problem that you are having (intermittant , problenm starts after heating up ) usually indicates a grounding problem. I don't know how the seaatbelt system is grounded, but worth a look .

[Randy Stevens]

1 hour ago, rtate1050 said:

Try finding the splice (or splices ) in the system and take them apart and solder them instead of a crimp connector or whatever else that they used.  Maybe voltage has to be in a specific range .

Also , as a general rule , the type of problem that you are having (intermittant , problenm starts after heating up ) usually indicates a grounding problem. I don't know how the seaatbelt system is grounded, but worth a look .

Believe it or not, I’ve  tried that! I’ve done everything I can possibly do to this that most everyone on here had mentioned, but check voltage within the seat belt system. That’s my next step and it possibly could be a ground issue. I’ll check back with you and let you know my findings!😉

[kenfain]

It looks like it takes a Delphi scanner to diagnose fault codes. I don't know if they're all the same, or if an adapter will do the job. Or if maybe some, or most Delphi scanners come with multiple adapters. I know very little about anything automotive scanner related, prior to OBD2.

All I know is, that the Hisun manufacturer sells the Delphi scanner for $1300 bucks. And furthermore, I also know that the Delphi scanner is a precursor to the OBD2 system. And Delphi scanners are neither scarce nor priced above about $30 bucks. At least according to a brief internet search. So I think further research would be time well spent. 

If, or when you get ready to pursue that approach. You'll need a good picture of your diagnostic port on the vehicle. 

Fellow member strike 250 has been offering free service manuals for certain models of the Massimo. And it's entirely possible that he could source one for your make/model. It never hurts to ask. 

[Randy Stevens]

1 hour ago, Randy Stevens said:

Believe it or not, I’ve  tried that! I’ve done everything I can possibly do to this that most everyone on here had mentioned, but check voltage within the seat belt system. That’s my next step and it possibly could be a ground issue. I’ll check back with you and let you know my findings!😉

 

1 hour ago, Randy Stevens said:

Believe it or not, I’ve  tried that! I’ve done everything I can possibly do to this that most everyone on here had mentioned, but check voltage within the seat belt system. That’s my next step and it possibly could be a ground issue. I’ll check back with you and let you know my findings!😉

Well I checked all lead, ground wires I could, did a continuity test on seat belt wiring and it checks out ok, had low voltage, but it doesn’t require 12 volt. Just to be sure, I jumped it with 12 volts when key is on but made no difference. The circuit is working properly. I’m thinking sensor, but which??

[Randy Stevens]

Just now, Randy Stevens said:

 

Well I checked all lead, ground wires I could, did a continuity test on seat belt wiring and it checks out ok, had low voltage, but it doesn’t require 12 volt. Just to be sure, I jumped it with 12 volts when key is on but made no difference. The circuit is working properly. I’m thinking sensor, but which??

Hisun is absolutely no HELP! They want money for info! Chinese crap!

[Ridge Runner]

Were you able to find a Serive or parts manual?  I’ve been searching for both manuals for the Coleman 550 Outfitter, which is the same as your HISUN.  A friend had trouble with his 700, and it was a dirty fuel injector,    

[Randy Stevens]

Truthfully I haven’t looked for a manual yet. I think I’ve got something worked out with rural king(place I bought it at last yr). Mechanic there said  he believes a sensor issue and is gonna provide info on what sensor & location and I’ll buy it and install myself. Fingers are crossed!!!🤞

[kenfain]

Does it have a sensor under the seat? Or are there wires going to the seatbelt? Because either one, if found, would be the sensor to check. Although not likely. It's possibly as simple as bypassing the sensor. 

[Randy Stevens]

Yeah, bypassing would be the ticket. I’ve finally got rural king to let me know what I need to do myself rather take it in for them to fix. They’ve got one in for repair with same issue,  they get their info straight from a Hisun tech in Texas.  If I can bypass it, I surely will, if not, I’ll gladly buy new sensor and get this machine back in business. It does have wires going to seatbelt and I’m sure a sensor is the issue, I just need to know exactly where as not to tear the thing completely down looking for it.  Thanks for input ken!!

[kenfain]

Having wires to the seatbelt means that it's either completing the circuit when the belt is clicked in. Or it breaks the circuit. So you'd just trace the wire back to the nearest plug. Probably less than a foot, or so. Unless the plug is on the sensor itself, inside the buckle. Pull the plug, and try it out. If that doesn't work, then try to jumper the two wires in the open plug end. 

But let's not forget, that we're only assuming that this is the actual problem. It could easily be a clogged injector. Since it has a diagnostic port, you might get some answers there. Is it a standard OBD2 port?

[Randy Stevens]

The book shows trouble codes so I’m assuming a plug I found in front by storage compartment & radiator is my OBD2 port. To trace this wire will result in complete wiring breakdown as it’s involves other circuit wiring  in the harness itself. I did use jump wire on seatbelt also checked voltage thru it. It test low voltage thus I jumped with no different results.  Appreciate  the info bro.

[Randy Stevens]

Just now, Randy Stevens said:

The book shows trouble codes so I’m assuming a plug I found in front by storage compartment & radiator is my OBD2 port. To trace this wire will result in complete wiring breakdown as it’s involves other circuit wiring  in the harness itself. I did use jump wire on seatbelt also checked voltage thru it. It test low voltage thus I jumped with no different results.  Appreciate  the info bro.

It’s s  the same issue I had last yr, wasn’t a clogged injector. 

[kenfain]

If it's an OBD2 port, then, in theory it should be easy to connect. I'm sure that it won't have all the pids that an auto has. But if it has a compatible protocol, it should give up what it does have. A live data reading would solve the problem in short order.

The OBD2 port has a distinctive shape, as do all the different diagnostic ports. The tester is cheap enough. I buy the cheap ones at harbor freight. Make the shape comparison, to be sure it's actually the right port. Non OBD2 is a bit more difficult, because it's not universal. So there's no point wasting time on that.

That belt sensor is probably hard wired then. I've got the same thing in my car. Short of unraveling the harness. Only an electrical diagram would tell where it goes. Even then, it likely goes through the CPU. 

Nothing much to add, unless you haven't tried jiggling the buckle while it's clasped and driving. Listening for any change in engine tone, or cadence. 

So waiting on the service tech would be my move. Otherwise you're chasing things that likely aren't broken. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you had the tools, and the time. Ask the tech, if you get the chance. If it is indeed standard OBD2. This information will come up later! 

Now would be an excellent time to source a service manual. If it's even available now, it certainly won't be in a couple of years. 

 

 

[kenfain]

1 hour ago, Randy Stevens said:

It’s s  the same issue I had last yr, wasn’t a clogged injector. 

If the sensor is cheap enough, it's worth a try. But I've been burned before by making an assumption about something mechanical, that I thought was obvious. I try not to make expensive mistakes like that anymore. 

[Randy Stevens]

9 hours ago, kenfain said:

If it's an OBD2 port, then, in theory it should be easy to connect. I'm sure that it won't have all the pids that an auto has. But if it has a compatible protocol, it should give up what it does have. A live data reading would solve the problem in short order.

The OBD2 port has a distinctive shape, as do all the different diagnostic ports. The tester is cheap enough. I buy the cheap ones at harbor freight. Make the shape comparison, to be sure it's actually the right port. Non OBD2 is a bit more difficult, because it's not universal. So there's no point wasting time on that.

That belt sensor is probably hard wired then. I've got the same thing in my car. Short of unraveling the harness. Only an electrical diagram would tell where it goes. Even then, it likely goes through the CPU. 

Nothing much to add, unless you haven't tried jiggling the buckle while it's clasped and driving. Listening for any change in engine tone, or cadence. 

So waiting on the service tech would be my move. Otherwise you're chasing things that likely aren't broken. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you had the tools, and the time. Ask the tech, if you get the chance. If it is indeed standard OBD2. This information will come up later! 

Now would be an excellent time to source a service manual. If it's even available now, it certainly won't be in a couple of years. 

 

 

Thanks Ken, yeah I’m gonna wait on tech to give me an appropriate answer but he said he had to go thru the channels with a Hisun tech because he doesn’t even know himself. Hisun needs to educate their service reps and service what they sell. It’s common practice everywhere else. This is a good running machine WHEN it’s runs!!!! I will let everyone here know when issue is diagnosis and cure is found so that others won’t go thru so much red tape for a fix!

[kenfain]

48 minutes ago, Randy Stevens said:

Thanks Ken, yeah I’m gonna wait on tech to give me an appropriate answer but he said he had to go thru the channels with a Hisun tech because he doesn’t even know himself. Hisun needs to educate their service reps and service what they sell. It’s common practice everywhere else. This is a good running machine WHEN it’s runs!!!! I will let everyone here know when issue is diagnosis and cure is found so that others won’t go thru so much red tape for a fix!

Yes, it's such a shame. People who own one, really seem to like these things. And it is a good looking, good sized, adequately powered little buggy. There's good dealer distribution infrastructure already in place, to buy these things. Really, if you think about all the logistics, of bringing something like this to market. All the hard part is mostly already in place. The only thing missing is service after the sale. If this company ever beefed up a parts, and service division. They'd have a serious contender for all the other brands to contend with. Mostly because of price point.

We'll be here to help, any way we can. I wish that everyone would remember that all the information that's shared here with us, is a permanent record that others can search. To better, and more easily solve the same problem. So thanks for sharing any new developments. Good luck!

[Randy Stevens]

1 hour ago, kenfain said:

Yes, it's such a shame. People who own one, really seem to like these things. And it is a good looking, good sized, adequately powered little buggy. There's good dealer distribution infrastructure already in place, to buy these things. Really, if you think about all the logistics, of bringing something like this to market. All the hard part is mostly already in place. The only thing missing is service after the sale. If this company ever beefed up a parts, and service division. They'd have a serious contender for all the other brands to contend with. Mostly because of price point.

We'll be here to help, any way we can. I wish that everyone would remember that all the information that's shared here with us, is a permanent record that others can search. To better, and more easily solve the same problem. So thanks for sharing any new developments. Good luck!

Totally agree and any knowledge that comes my way will definitely be passed on to others  here! Many, many thanks!!

[Randy Stevens]

On 9/29/2020 at 8:24 AM, kenfain said:

Yes, it's such a shame. People who own one, really seem to like these things. And it is a good looking, good sized, adequately powered little buggy. There's good dealer distribution infrastructure already in place, to buy these things. Really, if you think about all the logistics, of bringing something like this to market. All the hard part is mostly already in place. The only thing missing is service after the sale. If this company ever beefed up a parts, and service division. They'd have a serious contender for all the other brands to contend with. Mostly because of price point.

We'll be here to help, any way we can. I wish that everyone would remember that all the information that's shared here with us, is a permanent record that others can search. To better, and more easily solve the same problem. So thanks for sharing any new developments. Good luck!

Just to update everything, got my Hisun running again,  bad injector.  These machines are now know for such issue. Put in new injector (compatiable, better built one) & it runs better than new! Thanks for everyone’s help here. Hopefully it’ll help others with same issues!

[kenfain]

Glad to hear you found the problem! And thanks for the update. How did you determine the exact cause of the problem?

[Randy Stevens]

Actually some on here gave me clues, plus internet helped out too!

[kenfain]

What got my interest, was how you actually determined the injector was the culprit. And which one it was. Did you pull the injectors, and manually operate each one? Checking the spray? Or use some kind of pulse detector?