Trooper cranks but wont start

[rippin it in utah]

Hello Everyone,

I have been a member of the forum and enjoy reading your posts this is my first one. I have had my T4 for over a year, more than 1600 miles on it now. I was having idle and starting problems. I had the temp sensors changed, replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the plugs (new ones in the mail) replaced the alternator and a new battery.

When I get the thing running it really idles and runs much better, however, it is running hot now and never did that before. (Ideas???? I bled the cooling system at least 6 times like Joyner said to do)

The hard starting problem isn't fixed. The engine cranks but it sounds like it isn't getting fuel to turn over. This happens after it sits overnight. IF I can get it started, I don't have the starting problems again until it sits overnight or longer.

I have virtually no mechanical skills so I can't be precise on what I think the problem is. I won't push start now (which I have been able to do in the past.) The engine continues to crank over and over until the battery starts to get drained and I am at a loss!!!! Last year I had the starter replaced because I had issues with that. (Thank goodness for extended warranties!)

Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Want to go out and play some paintball with my sons this coming weekend!

ps.... Kinarfi, I live in Henderson, as I think you do also. Would love to talk sometime I really like reading your posts.

Thanks

Todd

[oceanjake]

My 08 trooper is no longer "turn-key". it won't start unless i give it some gas. once it's running it idles down and acts perfectly normal. any ideas? on dirtbikes it's usually valves, but this ain't no dirtbike. the mighty trooper has about 700km on it and I've done nothing to it so far but an oil change. what should I try and in what order?

[rocmoc]

Do you give the fuel pump time to pressurize the system? My Trooper has never started if I turn the key and immediately try. I have to wait until the fuel pump and fan stop making noise. Then it will start.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

I'm kind of experiencing the same thing, Thinking we need to follow the fix in unique fixes.

http://www.utvboard.com/index.php?s=&s...post&p=4468

Just a thought.

AND how hard is the starter to change or the solenoid, mine clicks in, but no starter.

kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Start is pretty easy after you clear stuff out of the way to get to it. The starter has two bolts and the start itself is pretty small.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[oceanjake]

rocmoc, yes i'm waiting for the fuel pump to pressurize the lines and the fan to stop. without applying any throttle it will kick over and immediately die. it appears to be a tuning problem....just wondering what an experienced mechanic would try first to diagnose the problem. it starts everytime if I give it gas....

[rocmoc]

First we need a experenced mechanic and it an't me, LOL! I would some injector cleaner in the fuel first. With the new blend of gas it is more about time than miles. If the gas sits anytime at all it scales and is very hard on rubber hose. The stuff is crap! I have to do this with my trailer gen as it will sit a month between uses.

Next; FLATBED or one of the dealers on here, what ya think?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Hammerdn]

Chek your fuel filter first any pluggage will hinder the engine from starting

[Guest Lenny]

rocmoc, yes i'm waiting for the fuel pump to pressurize the lines and the fan to stop. without applying any throttle it will kick over and immediately die. it appears to be a tuning problem....just wondering what an experienced mechanic would try first to diagnose the problem. it starts everytime if I give it gas....

I'm going to go out on the limb and sujest you try something. Set your fuel regulator pressure to be up about 5 or 10 pounds. When you first start a engine, it want's an extra shot of fuel. The engine is cold, the mixture is not quite as explosive. When it's first cranked, you do crank it don't you with the crank handle on the front, the engine can accumulate fuel until it has enough to start. Just maybe, the engine falls behind in fuel just after it starts, but, once past this point, everything goes fine. The air fuel senser sees plenty of fuel so doesn't increase it. With higher pressure, the engine will get more fuel at the start but the computer will pull it back once running.

This should be an interesting test. If you try it, let us know. It's just a non educated thought, as we say winging it.

If it doesn't idle good after it's running, it could be the throttle body idle air bypass valve sticking. If so, it needs removing and cleaning. I had to do that with mine but for a different reason. Mine wouldn't idle down as the valve was stuck too far open.

Lenny

[latch73]

My 08 Trooper has had this starting problem since the day I purchased it new. My buddy bought an 08 Trooper the same day from the same dealer and also experienced the same problem. He turned up his idle but I felt it was a poor fix because its the same as giving it throttle. I tried upping the fuel psi, changed out fuel filters, and always let the fuel pump pressure up and sometimes turned the ignition on and off a few times to make sure it was pressured up. Nothing has ever worked. Now for problem #2 that I feel is part of problem #1 is if I ever kill the engine while lets say pushing snow with the plow you just as well walk away from the machine for 30 min. because it will not start at all. after about 30 min. it will fire right back up (with a little throttle) as if there was never a problem. If anybody figures this out I would be doing back flips. P.S. It doest matter if the engine is cold or warmed up I still have to give it a little throttle to start.

I forgot to mention that the machine idles fine once running.

[brostar]

Hey Lance, long time no see, good to see you back mate. I think what's going on can be narrowed down to the line from the fuel filter to regulator with the pump in the middle. What we do know is once the fuel reaches the fuel rail under good psi she's all systems go. Just thinking outside the box a bit, I've got a sneaky suspicion that the fuel pump and the fan share the same relay. They do in the Renegades so it could be some sort of draw on power or whatever. What happens every time you turn the ignition on..... the fuel pump pumps and the fan goes through it's cycle. Food for thought anyway.

Cheers Mike.

[Guest Lenny]

Hey Lance, long time no see, good to see you back mate. I think what's going on can be narrowed down to the line from the fuel filter to regulator with the pump in the middle. What we do know is once the fuel reaches the fuel rail under good psi she's all systems go. Just thinking outside the box a bit, I've got a sneaky suspicion that the fuel pump and the fan share the same relay. They do in the Renegades so it could be some sort of draw on power or whatever. What happens every time you turn the ignition on..... the fuel pump pumps and the fan goes through it's cycle. Food for thought anyway.

Cheers Mike.

Maybe try unpluging the fan next time it won't start.

Lenny

[latch73]

Thanks guys for the ideas. I will give it a try. Its good to be back, I have been rebuilding my house all summer long and havn't had no time for anything else. No fun;-( Great to hear from you guys and I hope all is well.

[fasted61]

Thanks guys for the ideas. I will give it a try. Its good to be back, I have been rebuilding my house all summer long and havn't had no time for anything else. No fun;-( Great to hear from you guys and I hope all is well.

The problem is in the throttle body the Iac valve is not cycling properly. You will have to go to a dealer and get a new throttle body they don't sell the valve seperately. This valve is on the bottom of the throttle body if you can find a replacement somewhere that would be great. so far I haven't been able to find one. Seen this problem several times. good luck.

Ed

[flatbed]

I do not know if this is the problem, the air cleaners should only be cleaned with the detergent that they give you, or equivelent. Alot of the carb cleaners for carb engines will wipe out the sensers in the throttle body if used to clean air filters. Just a warnning.

[fasted61]

My 08 trooper is no longer "turn-key". it won't start unless i give it some gas. once it's running it idles down and acts perfectly normal. any ideas? on dirtbikes it's usually valves, but this ain't no dirtbike. the mighty trooper has about 700km on it and I've done nothing to it so far but an oil change. what should I try and in what order?

It is in the throttle body and they don't sell parts for it seperately. If you can't get one let me know I have them in stock seen this problem several times.

Fast Ed

[latch73]

It is in the throttle body and they don't sell parts for it seperately. If you can't get one let me know I have them in stock seen this problem several times.

Fast Ed

Thanks fast Ed for the info. I am still finishing my house (trying to beat winter) but as soon as I get all caught up I will get in touch with you to discuss the problem in a little more detail. I have dealt with throttle bodys on trucks a little but am kind of in the dark on the part you described. I could use all the help I can get.

Thanks again

Lance

[Anylizer]

One other possibility is the air intake temp sensor. This is the small square sensor mounted on the side of the intake plenum. Un-plug it and remove it. Buy some throttle body cleaner from the parts house and spray off the little tip of this sensor. These will get piled up w/ dirt and can't take a good reading, causing the computer difficulties in determining how much fuel to deliver. Just a thought. A.

[latch73]

One other possibility is the air intake temp sensor. This is the small square sensor mounted on the side of the intake plenum. Un-plug it and remove it. Buy some throttle body cleaner from the parts house and spray off the little tip of this sensor. These will get piled up w/ dirt and can't take a good reading, causing the computer difficulties in determining how much fuel to deliver. Just a thought. A.

Thanks Anylizer, I will give it a try.

[oceanjake]

turned out to be bad fuel. I ran some octane booster in the tank that was giving me trouble and changed the plugs but it still did the same thing. as soon as I added fresh fuel though the problem went away. starts fine now. good thing, because after a weekend of driving it like a baja car I've got some ideas for mods that I'd like to do instead of spending time chasing down a starting issue. thanks for all the feedback.

[Kinarfi]

turned out to be bad fuel. I ran some octane booster in the tank that was giving me trouble and changed the plugs but it still did the same thing. as soon as I added fresh fuel though the problem went away. starts fine now. good thing, because after a weekend of driving it like a baja car I've got some ideas for mods that I'd like to do instead of spending time chasing down a starting issue. thanks for all the feedback.

Please, tell us about your ideas, Maybe on a new thread.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Here I sit, all broken hearted, tried to play with my Trooper, but couldn't get it Started.

Forgive the plagiarism, even more so if you know where it came from.

Tried to start the Trooper but it wouldn't quite catch and run. Will also need to pull the starter and check the solenoid contacts. Suggestions anyone?

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

It is in the throttle body and they don't sell parts for it seperately. If you can't get one let me know I have them in stock seen this problem several times.

Fast Ed

What are our chances of getting you put up a few photos about this, I've been working on my (our) power steering project and haven't had time for other stuff, but when I try to start the Trooper, I have a real problem lately, maybe I need to replace the gasoline, Which by the way is the mid grade, always, do you think we need any better on do we even need that???

Kinarfi

[latch73]

What are our chances of getting you put up a few photos about this, I've been working on my (our) power steering project and haven't had time for other stuff, but when I try to start the Trooper, I have a real problem lately, maybe I need to replace the gasoline, Which by the way is the mid grade, always, do you think we need any better on do we even need that???

Kinarfi

Kinarfi, A friend of mine is having the very same problems. He is digging deep into it as we speak so I will see what he comes up with. Now here awhile back I was having some of the same problems and its the darnest thing but I removed my battery box and rebuilt it to except a larger battery. After installing the battery box back in and ging to a heavy duty car battery my machine fires right up. It has never started without giving it a little gas since the day I bought it and now it fires right up even in the coldest of Wyoming temps. I would have never of guessed that my battery not having enough cranking amps could have been my problem but it worked.

Good luck and I will let you know what my buddy comes up with.

[live4dirt]

hi there i'm eric

i'm new to the group,and a 2008 t2 owner. my buddy lance suggested that i join to see if ant one has an answer to my problem. after sitting over night my buggie wont start. i have to jump start it from an outside source. the starter cranks, the plugs are wet with fuel but no fire. i pulled the plugs, and with new ones tested for spark, they all 4 sparked, but no fire. i turned my fuel press. down to compensate for 7000+ elevation but still no good. i pulled the air inlet sensor and cleaned with electri. contact cleaner, no good. the only thing i can think of is either bad fuel(but after initiall start up runs great), or throttle positioning sensor is set wrong. does anyone know the voltage to set it with. im okay with mechanics, but this one has me stumped. if anyone can help it would be appreciated.

live4dirt

eric

[Guest Lenny]

hi there i'm eric

i'm new to the group,and a 2008 t2 owner. my buddy lance suggested that i join to see if ant one has an answer to my problem. after sitting over night my buggie wont start. i have to jump start it from an outside source. the starter cranks, the plugs are wet with fuel but no fire. i pulled the plugs, and with new ones tested for spark, they all 4 sparked, but no fire. i turned my fuel press. down to compensate for 7000+ elevation but still no good. i pulled the air inlet sensor and cleaned with electri. contact cleaner, no good. the only thing i can think of is either bad fuel(but after initiall start up runs great), or throttle positioning sensor is set wrong. does anyone know the voltage to set it with. im okay with mechanics, but this one has me stumped. if anyone can help it would be appreciated.

live4dirt

eric

There have been a couple of things others have found. Read "the hard to start" thread just above or below this one for some good advise. Also the TPS I beleive gets a 5 volt signal and returns a 0+ to maybe about 4-1/2 volts back depending on the throttle position. You shouldn't have to set the fuel regulator, alititude is compensated for by the computer. Setting it lower could very well cause the injectors to not mist or spray the fuel into the intake ports well. Poorly misted fuel won't atomize well and not enough vaporizes to create a good air fuel ratio for ignition. This could make starting harder. Remember that wet fuel on the spark plugs isn't atomized fuel. You can pour all the gas you want into the cylinder but if it doesn't atomize, it won't start. I beleive it should be set at 43 PSI but check the online manual.

Welcome to the forum. A lot of good and some very important information in past threads here.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

First a little explanation, I have rigged up a cigarette lighter on my dash for power to spot lights and such and to keep my battery up, I have rigged up a plug in for my lighter that I can hook a trickle charger to and it goes to my battery. The other day, I was having trouble getting mine to start and was worried about running the battery down so I hooked up my power supply for test bench to the lighter socket and it lit up just fine. It may be that my power supply was feeding the computer and ignition and the battery was feeding the starter. My thinking is that the wiring drops the voltage down to far for the ignition and or computer. My thoughts are that the ignition and computer may need to have direct wiring to the battery. It may actually have it, but I haven't looked to make sure, I just know that with power supplied at the key, it started easily.

Something to investigate..Another idea is a small battery for the ignition circuit, controlled by the computer, that can't be drained the the starter.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

I thinks you live in too cold of a climate. I am watching this thread but as of yet haven't had any problems with my '08 Trooper. Maybe the electronics aren't hardened enough for cold temps. Mine sits in the garage never near freezing when not in use and there is no way I am going outside if it is below 50 degrees for ANYTHING. Seems like most of the problems are in cold weather areas. My battery is working fine and did not need a charge after the 6 months of sitting while I repaired the trans.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

Hi Rocmoc, in my case, I discount cold weather, Trooper is always in the garage, heated, and doesn't like to start and other times I've had severe problems of it not lighting when cranking was in Moab, where it started with ease when pushed and clutch dump, instantly firing up.

I did run the stock air filter for a while and had that fine dust in the intake tubing, which I cleaned all the way down to the throttle body, so I probably need to clean the inside of the rest of it, guess I'll do that when I get around to pulling the starter for inspection, which definitely clicks in, but doesn't turn over. May add an external solenoid in parallel with the internal solenoid. I wonder how a solid-state solenoid would work, say 5 74amp FETs in parallel????

Just a little rambling here.

Kinarfi

[live4dirt]

There have been a couple of things others have found. Read "the hard to start" thread just above or below this one for some good advise. Also the TPS I beleive gets a 5 volt signal and returns a 0+ to maybe about 4-1/2 volts back depending on the throttle position. You shouldn't have to set the fuel regulator, alititude is compensated for by the computer. Setting it lower could very well cause the injectors to not mist or spray the fuel into the intake ports well. Poorly misted fuel won't atomize well and not enough vaporizes to create a good air fuel ratio for ignition. This could make starting harder. Remember that wet fuel on the spark plugs isn't atomized fuel. You can pour all the gas you want into the cylinder but if it doesn't atomize, it won't start. I beleive it should be set at 43 PSI but check the online manual.

Welcome to the forum. A lot of good and some very important information in past threads here.

Lenny

thanks for all the info guys. i,ll take your suggestions and try them. the group i ride with are big into dessert racing. infact we host uor own race 2nd weekend in august. so we'll get this figured out, when we do i'll be sure to post it. by the way we don,t have a utv class for race YET.