Can we come to a conclusion on shocks?

[Mopartist]

Hi Silverbullet

We just sold Larry Quigly a set of AFCO shocks set up for Troppers.See what he thinks.They were 1425.00 for a complete set.The only thing we had to due is weld 1/2 inch washer because the uniball was 1/2.In the future we will have spaces made.We also have Bilstein shocks custom made for Troopers they came with res. bilt in 1875.00 they bolt right in.For any body these shocks will work out great they ride soft can take the woops real well.No bottoming out and plenty of travel.All the other stuff is for pure racing and unless you race you dont need them.Its a Tropper not a race buggy.Then Spend 1000.00 of dollers on race buggys!

So Rick; tell me about the Bilstiens. Are they 8.5; dual springs;adjustable; etc? The pic on your website shows a piggyback shock with dual rate springs. Thats for the T2 right? I know Bilstien builds a really good shock; but there seems to be some discrepency with what the website shows. I just want to make sure these are not for sand spiders or other Joyner vehicles being that the Trooper is so heavy.

[MTS]

Hi - My name is Steve and I am Makin Trax Suspension. Makin Trax is the sole distributor for AFCO Racing Shocks and King Springworks Progressive Rate Springs as it relates to offroad especially UTV related products. Most of my focus has been with the Rhino & RZR's. I was asked to put something together for the Joyner and reluctantly did via phone conversations to get the needed information to put a setup together. I am a hands on person and really needed to physically work on the car to get the right info. Well we did pull it off and Larry Quigley has a set of AFCO's on his car. I am going to be able to get my hands on one this weekend to gather the info I need to be able to maximize the geometry and create bolt on package that will be plug and play for greatly enhancing the ride quality & performance at an affordable price. I should be able to have a pretty good package as soon as next week. www.makintraxsuspension.com

[rocmoc]

Hi - My name is Steve and I am Makin Trax Suspension. Makin Trax is the sole distributor for AFCO Racing Shocks and King Springworks Progressive Rate Springs as it relates to offroad especially UTV related products. Most of my focus has been with the Rhino & RZR's. I was asked to put something together for the Joyner and reluctantly did via phone conversations to get the needed information to put a setup together. I am a hands on person and really needed to physically work on the car to get the right info. Well we did pull it off and Larry Quigley has a set of AFCO's on his car. I am going to be able to get my hands on one this weekend to gather the info I need to be able to maximize the geometry and create bolt on package that will be plug and play for greatly enhancing the ride quality & performance at an affordable price. I should be able to have a pretty good package as soon as next week. www.makintraxsuspension.com

Welcome. We need more aftermarket guys offering goodies for our toys. Thanks for the interest.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

Hi - My name is Steve and I am Makin Trax Suspension. Makin Trax is the sole distributor for AFCO Racing Shocks and King Springworks Progressive Rate Springs as it relates to offroad especially UTV related products. Most of my focus has been with the Rhino & RZR's. I was asked to put something together for the Joyner and reluctantly did via phone conversations to get the needed information to put a setup together. I am a hands on person and really needed to physically work on the car to get the right info. Well we did pull it off and Larry Quigley has a set of AFCO's on his car. I am going to be able to get my hands on one this weekend to gather the info I need to be able to maximize the geometry and create bolt on package that will be plug and play for greatly enhancing the ride quality & performance at an affordable price. I should be able to have a pretty good package as soon as next week. www.makintraxsuspension.com

Steve,

I sent you an email about this weekend,let me know.

[Guest Lenny]

So I found this old thread you are referring to where Flatbed was having a discussion with you and Lenny. Good stuff! I think I'm starting to have a grasp (maybe a little) of how this all works. So it seems that a Fox 2.0 with 8.5 travel will work on the rear suspension with an 8 inch 300# tender over a 10 inch 600# primary. Now if I DO NOT lower my rear diff; will I need to relocate the bottom mounts even farther back? (Flatbed says he moved his 3/4 of an inch rearward.) The same shock on the front will require new top mount locations because the shock is 2.5 inches too long. Hmmmm.....might not be too bad to fab; but how can we minimize the fabrication? I'd be a bit uncomfortable messing with the core frame, but I'll have to take a closer study of what I have and see if a different shock tower can be acheived. So far it doesn't freak me out too bad; and I'm not too much against doing a hood cutout for the towers; but engineering problems with shock angles , I have no idea of the consequences. I'd like to see some pics of the tower fabrication. I had asked Lenny awhile back, but he had been injured and probably forgot. Pics are worth a thousand words; and with MY comprehension, they're worth a billion words.

Here are some pics of my front shock towers. I moved the cross tube that goes form side to side forward to make room directly over the lower shock mounts for the tower. The top cross bar that the shocks bolt to is supported by an A-frame comming up form the two frame bars about 10" below, the ones that run front to rear. As you can see, I also gave it extra support by tying it into the side to side horizontal bar. You will also see that I put in a second set of holes which gave me a bit of adjustment of where the shock mounted. It's not that hard to do. One of of the pics show the shocks in place and the bump stops. I like the bump stops because I can have a lighter main spring for a softer ride and still catch a real hard hit. This is where double and triple bypass shocks would be nice because you could set different rates for different parts of the suspension travel. I also use a limit strap because I want to stop the travel at a specific spot. This spot is just a speck before the CV joints start to bind. Without the limit straps I would have to have my shock mount pins, when the shock is fully extended, to be exactely in the right place to stop the travel just right. Flatbed did about the same as this for his shock tower. Hope this helps you in your thinking. Yours, of course, could be the same but with placement and geometry to suit your needs.

, , ,

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Just got off the phone with my man Steve at Makintrax suspension. He is waiting to hear some feedback from Quig on the AFCO shocks he buit for him. Also, he said that someone in Orange County is going to bring him a Trooper to take measurements on (is that you ricksb?). He should be able to come up with a single rate near bolt-in solution on shocks for the Trooper. I say near bolt-in because our shock mount holes are a gargantuous metric bolt hole diameter and his shocks come with in 1/2" bolt hole rod ends (most UTV shocks do). I suggest using a 5/8" sleeve (available at Lowes) over the 1/2" bolt. You will just have to drill the Trooper shock mounts out to 5/8" and cut the sleeve to fit. The sleeve will not only center the shock & hold it in place but act as a misaligment spacer.

We are getting closer

met Steve today from Makin Trax,he can over to my place and took all the measurements.He was impressed with the Trooper and drive train,maybe we will have another trooper owner soon.Real nice guy and seems to want to work on getting the right set up.One thing that did make me wonder about him though was he seems to think quig is a real nice guy..(LOL)

[MTS]

met Steve today from Makin Trax,he can over to my place and took all the measurements.He was impressed with the Trooper and drive train,maybe we will have another trooper owner soon.Real nice guy and seems to want to work on getting the right set up.One thing that did make me wonder about him though was he seems to think quig is a real nice guy..(LOL)

If I left you with that impression about Quig.............................I'm sorry, let's clear that up! LOL

Speaking of Quig, I got a call from him while driving back from Rick's house. One, he was very happy about his first real test ride with the AFCO Shocks. I'll let him tell you guys about that. The second thing that came up in the conversation was that the suspension geometry is different on the T4 than the T2. My understanding was they are the same except the springs. Can anyone confirm or clarify this for me? Now that I have the numbers I need I will be able to put together a lineup of shocks for the Joyners next week.

Steve

[Quig]

met Steve today from Makin Trax,he can over to my place and took all the measurements.He was impressed with the Trooper and drive train,maybe we will have another trooper owner soon.Real nice guy and seems to want to work on getting the right set up.One thing that did make me wonder about him though was he seems to think quig is a real nice guy..(LOL)

OK! That hurt!! Steve has good idea about who is nice & who isn't! Well, Maybe not? lol : ) Steve is great guy,, unlike,,,,,,,you know who? lmao

Just read Steve's post:

Ok! I take back what I said about "Steve" lol ,,,, 1st liar doesn't stand a chance!!

Quig, "me" thought the shocks were different on t2 & t4? I'm old, not smart, wrong alot,, so someone clear up my mess? Please

[MTS]

I'm old, not smart, wrong alot,, so someone clear up my mess?

I think you finally made it perfectly clear! LOL.......................................................BTW let me know if there is a difference in length of the shocks guys. Thanx

[rocmoc]

My understanding is they are the same! If you could access the old parts manuals that use to be online, parts & numbers were the same. Silverbullet/Rick, Jarrad & the new factory guys would be the most knowledgeable.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[MTS]

My understanding is they are the same! If you could access the old parts manuals that use to be online, parts & numbers were the same. Silverbullet/Rick, Jarrad & the new factory guys would be the most knowledgeable.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

How would I get the contact info for the factory guys?

[ricksrb]

I think you finally made it perfectly clear! LOL.......................................................BTW let me know if there is a difference in length of the shocks guys. Thanx

I double checked my owners manual and according to it(which is for the t2 and t4)the part numbers are the same for the shocks and springs on both as well as all the suspension parts.Throughout the manual when it does come to parts that are not the same(which is only the sections of frame and roll bar that makes it longer)it gives seperate diagrams and part nubers for the t2 and t4.So i can only assume all suspension is the same.

[MTS]

I double checked my owners manual and according to it(which is for the t2 and t4)the part numbers are the same for the shocks and springs on both as well as all the suspension parts.Throughout the manual when it does come to parts that are not the same(which is only the sections of frame and roll bar that makes it longer)it gives seperate diagrams and part nubers for the t2 and t4.So i can only assume all suspension is the same.

Perfect, I will move forward based on that info. Thanks Rick!

[brostar]

How would I get the contact info for the factory guys?

I will answer this under a new topic so it will be easy to find next time. I’ll head it “Joyner USA Inc”. Contact Kris Able with any question's about shocks. He will know for sure.

Cheers Mike.

[ricksrb]

I will answer this under a new topic so it will be easy to find next time. I’ll head it “Joyner USA Inc”. Contact Kris Able with any question's about shocks. He will know for sure.

Cheers Mike.

Thank you Brostar,I told Steve you were probably the man for that info.

[MTS]

I will answer this under a new topic so it will be easy to find next time. I’ll head it “Joyner USA Inc”. Contact Kris Able with any question's about shocks. He will know for sure.

Cheers Mike.

Thank you!

[Quig]

Just got back from testing AFCO shocks. Went to familiar trails here in Idaho. The shocks were fantastic!! Fronts were great 1st set-up,, rears had to change adjustment some after talking to Steve. They are getting really close, just some fine tuning now. I actually carry lots of tools,gas,water,spare tire, didn't tell Steve about that, so I might go to little heavier springs on rear.He said that would take care of ride height & weight difference. Going through whoops was not a beating, like it used to be. Real happy with shocks!!! Oldman Quig

[Banjo Minnow]

How was the small bump compliance?

[Quig]

How was the small bump compliance?

The fronts were excellent,, backs were pretty good. Think I will probably go with little heavier spring in back. Not used to new ride, will take awhile to get used to comfortable ride.

[Guest Lenny]

I double checked my owners manual and according to it(which is for the t2 and t4)the part numbers are the same for the shocks and springs on both as well as all the suspension parts.Throughout the manual when it does come to parts that are not the same(which is only the sections of frame and roll bar that makes it longer)it gives seperate diagrams and part nubers for the t2 and t4.So i can only assume all suspension is the same.

Maybe Joyner uses the same shock but mounts it at different points to carry the extra weight.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Maybe Joyner uses the same shock but mounts it at different points to carry the extra weight.

Lenny

"IF" it is different mounting points it would have to be upper mounts on all four corners because there again part numbers for a-arms and swing arms are the same for t2 and t4 thus mounting points on them are the same.

[Guest Lenny]

"IF" it is different mounting points it would have to be upper mounts on all four corners because there again part numbers for a-arms and swing arms are the same for t2 and t4 thus mounting points on them are the same.

Then again, the T2 is so stiff stock that the same suspension would probably still work.

Lenny

[Banjo Minnow]

Are the AFCO's rebuildable? How often would this need to be done and at what cost? Thanks

[Mopartist]

Here are some pics of my front shock towers. I moved the cross tube that goes form side to side forward to make room directly over the lower shock mounts for the tower. The top cross bar that the shocks bolt to is supported by an A-frame comming up form the two frame bars about 10" below, the ones that run front to rear. As you can see, I also gave it extra support by tying it into the side to side horizontal bar. You will also see that I put in a second set of holes which gave me a bit of adjustment of where the shock mounted. It's not that hard to do. One of of the pics show the shocks in place and the bump stops. I like the bump stops because I can have a lighter main spring for a softer ride and still catch a real hard hit. This is where double and triple bypass shocks would be nice because you could set different rates for different parts of the suspension travel. I also use a limit strap because I want to stop the travel at a specific spot. This spot is just a speck before the CV joints start to bind. Without the limit straps I would have to have my shock mount pins, when the shock is fully extended, to be exactely in the right place to stop the travel just right. Flatbed did about the same as this for his shock tower. Hope this helps you in your thinking. Yours, of course, could be the same but with placement and geometry to suit your needs.

, , ,

Lenny

How much more "height" did you have to gain with the new upper mount locations over stock height for the shocks to fit?

[Guest Lenny]

How much more "height" did you have to gain with the new upper mount locations over stock height for the shocks to fit?

I can't tell you any longer how much more height I added because I don't remember exactly where the old locations were. My new locations are as follows.

Upper: Center of top shock bolt is 1" above the top of the main frame bars running along the sides of the hood and the two points for the shocks are 10" apart.

Lower: Center of hole is 1" above top of the a-frame upper ball joint and 1-5/8" over from the center of the ball joint.

I'm running 10" 2.0 Fox shocks and am getting 14-1/2" of travel. You may not be looking for that much travel but you can get about 12" for free just by using a shock that allows the extra available travel to be used. Flatbed is also getting 14-1/2" of travel but uses 8" fox shocks thus his shock mount locations will be a bit different.

Lenny

[Mopartist]

I can't tell you any longer how much more height I added because I don't remember exactly where the old locations were. My new locations are as follows.

Upper: Center of top shock bolt is 1" above the top of the main frame bars running along the sides of the hood and the two points for the shocks are 10" apart.

Lower: Center of hole is 1" above top of the a-frame upper ball joint and 1-5/8" over from the center of the ball joint.

I'm running 10" 2.0 Fox shocks and am getting 14-1/2" of travel. You may not be looking for that much travel but you can get about 12" for free just by using a shock that allows the extra available travel to be used. Flatbed is also getting 14-1/2" of travel but uses 8" fox shocks thus his shock mount locations will be a bit different.

Lenny

As I am reading it; Flatbed says that an 8.5 shock was 2.5 inches too long for the stock locations. So if I gain 2.5 inches in height and use the stock bottom locations, it should fit.

I'm thinking that instead of moving the crossbar; I will weld 2"X3"X 12" square tubing in the span and support from the center frame beneath it with uprights.

You guys are gonna turn me into a fabrication expert yet!

[MTS]

Are the AFCO's rebuildable? How often would this need to be done and at what cost? Thanks

Yes they are rebuildable and re-valveable. Parts are readily available. There are 40 plus service centers around the country and of course Makin Trax. We provide the high standards in customer service. AFCO Shocks are 100% made right here in the USA. The time between service is dependent on a wide variable of conditions, care and driving styles. My high mileage guys I see once a year and they are putting in about 2000 miles a year. Duners I see their shocks more often due to the fine sand. I do customers re-valves and service if they pay for the shipping. Is that what you needed to know?

[MauyThai1]

I can't tell you any longer how much more height I added because I don't remember exactly where the old locations were. My new locations are as follows.

Upper: Center of top shock bolt is 1" above the top of the main frame bars running along the sides of the hood and the two points for the shocks are 10" apart.

Lower: Center of hole is 1" above top of the a-frame upper ball joint and 1-5/8" over from the center of the ball joint.

I'm running 10" 2.0 Fox shocks and am getting 14-1/2" of travel. You may not be looking for that much travel but you can get about 12" for free just by using a shock that allows the extra available travel to be used. Flatbed is also getting 14-1/2" of travel but uses 8" fox shocks thus his shock mount locations will be a bit different.

Lenny

Lenny which Fox works best in th e stock mounts? Robert.

[rocmoc]

Yes they are rebuildable and re-valveable. Parts are readily available. There are 40 plus service centers around the country and of course Makin Trax. We provide the high standards in customer service. AFCO Shocks are 100% made right here in the USA. The time between service is dependent on a wide variable of conditions, care and driving styles. My high mileage guys I see once a year and they are putting in about 2000 miles a year. Duners I see their shocks more often due to the fine sand. I do customers re-valves and service if they pay for the shipping. Is that what you needed to know?

Excellent, sounds like you have the customer service. Now we need a GREAT price.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[2scoops]

Excellent, sounds like you have the customer service. Now we need a GREAT price.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I told you he was a good dude. It kind of makes me wish I would have waited on some AFCO shocks. Even though I didn't purchase a single item through Makintrax he has still spent hours with me on the phone helping me get the right set up. If I didn't go dual rate I would have long since been done. I have found that dual rate shocks can be an enigma trying to figure the correct spring rates and an enima on my pocket book.