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Mopartist

Can we come to a conclusion on shocks?

82 posts in this topic

There has been many discussions on aftermarket shocks; and for the most part; the guys who have really gone into modifying and fabrication on their Troopers are the only ones giving specs. But I'm wondering (and I'm sure many others are too) What specs do we use for replacing our stiff old squeeky nitrogen charged junk stock shocks with modern high tech "mushy" shocks that enables us to drink a cup of coffee while going down a bumpy trail at 40 mph. (Not literally of coarse) Whether ordering King Shocks, or Fox, or FOA, or Rancho, or Bilstien, etc. ; we've discussed valving, travel, preload, rebound, dual spring rates, limiting straps, etc, etc. But it doesn't mean we all understand the technology of shocks. I know there are many options, but there must be a base line. For instance: I don't think if we have the right shocks, we should have to use limiting straps, or lower the diff, or modify the shock mounts. Can someone just say "Here's what I have. It works great on a "stock" Trooper. Order aftermarkets using this information." Shocks are way too expensive to get a number wrong in ordering. Thanks in advance guys

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There has been many discussions on aftermarket shocks; and for the most part; the guys who have really gone into modifying and fabrication on their Troopers are the only ones giving specs. But I'm wondering (and I'm sure many others are too) What specs do we use for replacing our stiff old squeeky nitrogen charged junk stock shocks with modern high tech "mushy" shocks that enables us to drink a cup of coffee while going down a bumpy trail at 40 mph. (Not literally of coarse) Whether ordering King Shocks, or Fox, or FOA, or Rancho, or Bilstien, etc. ; we've discussed valving, travel, preload, rebound, dual spring rates, limiting straps, etc, etc. But it doesn't mean we all understand the technology of shocks. I know there are many options, but there must be a base line. For instance: I don't think if we have the right shocks, we should have to use limiting straps, or lower the diff, or modify the shock mounts. Can someone just say "Here's what I have. It works great on a "stock" Trooper. Order aftermarkets using this information." Shocks are way too expensive to get a number wrong in ordering. Thanks in advance guys

I honestly think the answer is NO, we can not come to a conclusion, too many people don't agree with me :lol: but the data is out there. From the parts pieces and info page,

Trooper T2 weights, 380lb. on each front wheel, 480 lb. on left rear, 520 on right rear TOTAL = 1760 pounds,

I haven't seen any real specs on what stock travel is, Maybe you can supply that, I my opinion, The bottom measurement, EYE to EYE, should be where the axle has an 1/8 an inch clearance from the trailing arm, top should be what ever the shock builder can get with the max eye to eye. I still like my FOAs as they don't use nitrogen or any pressure, just springs. If you still have the original shocks on, would please take a photo and or measure of the clearance of axle and the trailing arm with the frame jacked up so the shock is fully extended. you got me thinking of something.

Thanks,

Kinarfi

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I honestly think the answer is NO, we can not come to a conclusion, too many people don't agree with me laugh.gif but the data is out there. From the parts pieces and info page,

Trooper T2 weights, 380lb. on each front wheel, 480 lb. on left rear, 520 on right rear TOTAL = 1760 pounds,

I haven't seen any real specs on what stock travel is, Maybe you can supply that, I my opinion, The bottom measurement, EYE to EYE, should be where the axle has an 1/8 an inch clearance from the trailing arm, top should be what ever the shock builder can get with the max eye to eye. I still like my FOAs as they don't use nitrogen or any pressure, just springs. If you still have the original shocks on, would please take a photo and or measure of the clearance of axle and the trailing arm with the frame jacked up so the shock is fully extended. you got me thinking of something.

Thanks,

Kinarfi

Tell me where to measure and I'll get that for you. Its 1/2 inch clearance from the top surface of the axle to where it would meet with the bottom side of the top trailing arm bar.

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There has been many discussions on aftermarket shocks; and for the most part; the guys who have really gone into modifying and fabrication on their Troopers are the only ones giving specs. But I'm wondering (and I'm sure many others are too) What specs do we use for replacing our stiff old squeeky nitrogen charged junk stock shocks with modern high tech "mushy" shocks that enables us to drink a cup of coffee while going down a bumpy trail at 40 mph. (Not literally of coarse) Whether ordering King Shocks, or Fox, or FOA, or Rancho, or Bilstien, etc. ; we've discussed valving, travel, preload, rebound, dual spring rates, limiting straps, etc, etc. But it doesn't mean we all understand the technology of shocks. I know there are many options, but there must be a base line. For instance: I don't think if we have the right shocks, we should have to use limiting straps, or lower the diff, or modify the shock mounts. Can someone just say "Here's what I have. It works great on a "stock" Trooper. Order aftermarkets using this information." Shocks are way too expensive to get a number wrong in ordering. Thanks in advance guys

Are people using limiting straps with the Kings? I was under the impression that they WERE the only bolt on option which required no modification, and they should install themselves for $2600. People HAVE said the Kings work great, so just contact Silverbullet or one of the other vendors and they'll take care of you. Ahhhh, now you are going to mention price--this is he exact same feelling the rest of us had. Welcome to the downward spiral of uber-complicated suspension modification that is the Joyner Trooper.

I think the main reason many of us have modified the stock suspension is because we saw much potential beyond just changing shocks.

I have already posted a ton of info here, but you have probably already read it:

http://www.utvboard.com/topic/2117-new-shocks/page__st__40

Also, I can tell you that although the rear corners of the trooper weights have been documented around 480 & 520, there is actually about 800lbs of pressure on the rear shocks due to leverage of the swingarm in its stock location. When I put a sole 400lb spring on it compressed 2 inches. Thus if you put an 800lb spring on it should compress 1 inch. Although I have modified my front suspension, the angle of the shock only changed by about 10 degrees. I found that a 100lb spring compressed 4 inches. Thus, there is 400lbs of pressure on the front shocks. Now, you consider most Troopers only have about .25 to .5 inch of droop on the stock shocks when static, you can start to see why it feels so stiff. They have probably taken a 350 lb spring (front) & a 600 lb spring (rear) and preloaded it so that the trooper retains its factory rated ground clearance. Well, doing this made it stiff. There is probably around 1000lbs of presure on the rear shock and around 600 in the front. So, if you want to make it instantly softer, just back off the preload. Understand you will then lose ground clearance as the shocks compress. This is why some of us have been seeking more droop in the suspension, so we can have a soft ride, not lose ground clearance, and overall have more travel.

I suggest you take the info from this forum and combine it with one afternoon in the garage. Take your stock shocks off and see exactly how much travel you are comfortable with squeezing out of YOUR suspension (I removed my fenders completely to maximize it). I say this because there is more to be had depending on what you are willing to sacrifice. Get your measurements and find a shock with the right lengths in extended and compressed positions. Also, you will want to determine how much droop you want on the shock shaft. Then, you can figure out your spring rates. Or, you can use what King suggests. Make sure they know you are looking for a HEAVY Joyner Trooper though. Most of the companys I talked to assume it is a Joyner Sand Spider or something and suggest rates which are way too low.

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Tell me where to measure and I'll get that for you. Its 1/2 inch clearance from the top surface of the axle to where it would meet with the bottom side of the top trailing arm bar.

Oooo, oooo, that is what I am talking about! See all of the space between the axle and the trailing arm--that is all untapped travel waiting to be used! I ended up with over 13.5 inches of travel with my Fox 8.5" shocks. That is without lowering the rear diff. I did have to remove the fenders though.

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Well; I don't want you to think I'm just being lazy. Alot of guys take a hobby like off roading and go to the limits. (Just like muscle car guys and hot rodders) I however; just want to buy a set of shocks to make the ride much better without paying over $1000 more for the "secret information". I'm spending more time on the body and paint. I used to be in to hot rodding (68 Roadrunner, 65 Dart 383) and I spent more time under the car than in it.; but now that I'm closer to retirement age; I care more about soft rides, custom cars, motorhomes, and the kind of things that don't put me flat on my back unable to stand upright. With the Chiropractor every week; the ice pack on the lumbar every night; believe me; I won't be jumping tabletops like in the old days on dirt bikes; I just wanna bolt on some shocks and cruise. But I don't get why some of the guys who bought the King Shock secret can't just say it....for free :P Almost every aftermarket shock builder has done a Trooper by now. You would think they would market shock sets like King; and undercut the King price. After all; thats the way they market shock and long travel suspensions for Rhino, Razor, and Can Am buggies.

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I'd like to add as well; how do you know at what angle the CV pulls loose from the socket and binds up? Yeah; you might have alot of travel; but if the axle pulls out while your in the air (Not likely with the obese weight of the Trooper); seems like there should have been a more precise plan for shock travel (I know; limiting straps....which also seem like a mickey mouse way of doing things) These things are what keep me from the costly practice of experimenting with suspensions (which I have zero experience with). One wrong move; and I start draining the account to pay for mistakes. I'd rather already be an expert at it if I'm going to monkey with it. Learning by mistakes can be really costly in this case. :unsure:

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Some Trooper owners changed setups because Joyner's setup was just WRONG! Better than most UTVs but still not what it should be. IMHO the ride height was adjust to give "the largest ground clearance in the UTV market" rather than the best ride height. If you look at the rear axles they are already near the max extension angle of the CV joint. I worked to neutralize the angle but that met giving up ride height / ground clearance. On the plus side this removes load from the shocks and softens the ride improving the ride & performance. The 31" tires added the ground clearance back. It is not just as simple as this is the shock to use. It is more what do you want when you are finished. If you just want to replace the shock and probably improve a little performance, all you have to do is match up the extended length & compressed length to what ever brand of shock you like & install. It will be better but not optimum. Fox or FOA is the least expensive routes to take. My bias is Fox. Fox uses the FOA online site's spring calculate screen to size the spring/ springs. There are measurement you take & weighs, input to the screen and out pops their recommendation for a spring / springs. Valving on the shock is too stiff in the off-shelf configuration. I soften my damping greatly to get the performance I was looking for. Fox allows one revalving free with purchase. And I DO NOT have to USE limit straps. I do not run limit straps now as the shocks are doing the job they are suppose to. There is a detailed post of my shock upgrade on this site.

Good Luck,

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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I'd like to add as well; how do you know at what angle the CV pulls loose from the socket and binds up? Yeah; you might have alot of travel; but if the axle pulls out while your in the air (Not likely with the obese weight of the Trooper); seems like there should have been a more precise plan for shock travel (I know; limiting straps....which also seem like a mickey mouse way of doing things) These things are what keep me from the costly practice of experimenting with suspensions (which I have zero experience with). One wrong move; and I start draining the account to pay for mistakes. I'd rather already be an expert at it if I'm going to monkey with it. Learning by mistakes can be really costly in this case. :unsure:

You are right, experimenting can take a lot of time and money. I live to experiment so it works out good for me, can'e get enough of it. I do use limit straps and will always stay with them. If I want to run trails really hot, all I have to do is shorten the straps to lower my center of gravety and firm up my suspension. The full range of the shock is available also without having rubber stoppers inside to catch bottoming out. I typically keep mine at the full 14-1/2" of travel I have. If your careful with how things are set up, it all works fine. I have never had an axel slide off nor a CV joint go bad, knock on wood. Probably have a 1000 miles on this setup without problems. LIke Rocmoc said, it all depends what you want to get out of your suspension.

Lenny

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Sorry if I'm not as articulate as i need to be on this. My intention was not to have you modified guys repeat yourselves. I've been over every word written about how your "MODIFIED" suspensions work and how much fabrication was required to pull it off. Thats why I stated that only the modified guys were willing to share their info. 2 scoops made the point that "King Shocks" were the only true "bolt on" sets available. That being said; there have been many people who use the King Shock setup on their Troopers, and I'm trying to get the information that comes from owning King Shocks so that a comparable set of Fox, FOA, Bilstien, Walker Evans, Afco, or any other aftermarket shock can also be set up without spending the outrageous price of $2600. (Well, maybe Walker Evans would be that expensive)

You guys went the "modification route" .....I'm looking for simpler stock route which does not have 14 inches of travel; but the stock 10-12 inch travel for about a grand less. I'm not that much in to rock crawling and open desert racing. I don't need to spend so much on perfect handling. I'd be happy with keeping up with a long travel Razor. I can weld; but it doesn't mean that I want to reconfigure and reengineer my suspension. I don't have that kind of experience. I think it's awesome that some of you have that want and need to make it MUCH better. I'm just not there. I guess my priorities are just different. I want my Trooper to ride like this:

lowrider[1]%20(3).jpg

Whoops; not that.....THIS :blink:............. :lol:

DSC00763.JPG?1303923699699

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Well; I don't want you to think I'm just being lazy. Alot of guys take a hobby like off roading and go to the limits. (Just like muscle car guys and hot rodders) I however; just want to buy a set of shocks to make the ride much better without paying over $1000 more for the "secret information". I'm spending more time on the body and paint. I used to be in to hot rodding (68 Roadrunner, 65 Dart 383) and I spent more time under the car than in it.; but now that I'm closer to retirement age; I care more about soft rides, custom cars, motorhomes, and the kind of things that don't put me flat on my back unable to stand upright. With the Chiropractor every week; the ice pack on the lumbar every night; believe me; I won't be jumping tabletops like in the old days on dirt bikes; I just wanna bolt on some shocks and cruise. But I don't get why some of the guys who bought the King Shock secret can't just say it....for free :P Almost every aftermarket shock builder has done a Trooper by now. You would think they would market shock sets like King; and undercut the King price. After all; thats the way they market shock and long travel suspensions for Rhino, Razor, and Can Am buggies.

I think your assumption that every aftermarket builder has built shocks for a Trooper is incorrect. For one, if anyone other than King had built a Trooper specific shock, you would have found it here on this forum. Second, why would they invest their time and money into a UTV that was built for roughly two years, company is no longer in business, and doesn't appear to be resurfacing anytime soon. To custom build a shock just for a Trooper--there just isn't any money in it for them. We owners are our own customer support and research and developement departments. As far as the King "secret information", have you called King? I have, and they told me exactly what spring rates they put on their shocks, and I posted it in this forum. I did not ask lengths because I already had my shocks.

I am also suprised that someone hasn't chimed in about the specifics of their very own King set up; but, at $2600 I think they are a rare breed. On that note, have you contacted Tobefast (where you got the picture from) and asked them some specifics on their set up? Also, I think Silverbullet has run Kings if I am not mistaken. It can't hurt to ask.

Now, I know you read my post about my 8.5" shocks fitting after I grinded down the swing arm slightly, and since you haven't done that yet, I assume you deemed that unacceptable. So, I would HIGHLY recommend you instead cut the rear mount off and move it until it doesn't make contact. While you are doing this knock out two birds with one stone and put a beef up plate underneath the rear mount. Banjow Minnow had his rear shock bust right though the swingarm once. The metal is already really thin there and if has rust.....it is a MUST do upgrade the older your Trooper gets. Keep the questions coming, but also let us know what you find out elsewhere--good luck!

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I don't quite get why we are arguing about this. And YES; I have contacted Silverbullet, FOA (twice), and ToBeFast by e-mail. (with no responce from any of them) I have already stated that I am partially hearing impaired (here on this board AND to the individual companies); thats why I e-mail. Plus when you get old; you forget details easily. A phone call (if I COULD hear it well) has a high risk of me not remembering the details, or misunderstanding what I'm being told. (Ask any of the old timers here how that works) :D If things are gonna get snippy; lets just drop the whole thing, and I'll end up buying Kings. No biggy; I just thought I could be cheap as usual; and save a grand. I'd rather get along with the members here so that when I come to the Jamboree I won't be an ostracized dinosaur. That would kinda take the fun out of it; ya think? And how would I explain to my wife why we can't hang out with the cool kids?

I'll tell you one thing; I may end up having the best LOOKING Trooper you've ever seen. Art and painting I understand;....... suspensions.....not so much.

Now, I know you read my post about my 8.5" shocks fitting after I grinded down the swing arm slightly, and since you haven't done that yet, I assume you deemed that unacceptable.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I haven't even started on the shock project yet. I'm still doing bodywork. Thats why I am looking for information, so that when I am ready; i somewhat know what I'm talking about. :huh:

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I don't quite get why we are arguing about this. And YES; I have contacted Silverbullet, FOA (twice), and ToBeFast by e-mail. (with no responce from any of them) I have already stated that I am partially hearing impaired (here on this board AND to the individual companies); thats why I e-mail. Plus when you get old; you forget details easily. A phone call (if I COULD hear it well) has a high risk of me not remembering the details, or misunderstanding what I'm being told. (Ask any of the old timers here how that works) :D If things are gonna get snippy; lets just drop the whole thing, and I'll end up buying Kings. No biggy; I just thought I could be cheap as usual; and save a grand. I'd rather get along with the members here so that when I come to the Jamboree I won't be an ostracized dinosaur. That would kinda take the fun out of it; ya think? And how would I explain to my wife why we can't hang out with the cool kids?

I'll tell you one thing; I may end up having the best LOOKING Trooper you've ever seen. Art and painting I understand;....... suspensions.....not so much.

Now, I know you read my post about my 8.5" shocks fitting after I grinded down the swing arm slightly, and since you haven't done that yet, I assume you deemed that unacceptable.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I haven't even started on the shock project yet. I'm still doing bodywork. Thats why I am looking for information, so that when I am ready; i somewhat know what I'm talking about. :huh:

Hope you post some photos of it when your finished.

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Hope you post some photos of it when your finished.

Everything is primed, sealed, and ready to go with Bada Bling Silver flake water base next week. I haven't used water color auto paint before, but it should be interesting. I can do the airbrushing in the house! :)

post-209-0-70726700-1303941317_thumb.jpg

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I am almost positive 2 scoops isn't being snide. Just trying to inform.

Now, if I understood it correctly I can use a fox 8.5 on rear if I move the swing arm mount back towards the wheel? Is this right? This would be a very simple mod if we only have to move the mount back a few inches. Any expert opinions?

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What happen Mopartist? I don't understand why you are so upset? Did I miss something? Did something get deleted? Hang in there, no one is trying to upset you. We may rub each other on an occasion but no one on this forum wishes ill-willl on anyone.

There is no one doing shocks for Troopers except source of King. Like I stated just look at Fox extended length & compressed length and match it to the stock shock. I beliieve the 8.5" shock is the one. Springs are a little tougher and may req'r a little trial & error.

Hang in there,

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

ps there are other sites where my post have been deleted, posters have been nasty but I am still there. I just a bad penny that will not go away so stay here and come over to the dark side. Admin knew this of me from other sites before he made me a Mod and I am telling you to have FUN & STAY HERE!

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Uhhhhhhh....sorry about that little .....(grits teeth) I'm just havin a crappy day I guess. I don't think I've ever had so much trouble understanding a simple thing like suspensions. Usually stuff like this comes easily to me; but for some reason I'm just not grasping it. I feel really stupid. I know you guys have gone way out of your way to explain things, but for some reason I just blank out in having that "Aha" moment. I have 2 other vehicle projects going and my mind is divided I guess. It's not an unwillingness to learn; it's just that I'm stretched too thin I guess. Shocks are EXTREMELY expensive; and I want to get it right, and not waste money and time experementing till I get it right.

On the other hand....speaking of hands.....I'm selling an Austin Mini motor and cut the livin crap out of my hand on the metal strapping that holds it to the pallet. I'm hoping to use my cherry picker to get it into my pickup bed so I can deliver on Saturday to Portland. Taking a HUGE loss on this motor. Cost me 7K to have it built, and I'm dumping it for 4K. Just feelin kinda dumb I guess and I don't like the insinuation that I am.

Oh well; I can't know EVERYTHING.

Again; sorry for the outburst.

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Don't worry we all have bad days.

I am sure the Fox 2.0 shock is the 8.5" shock and have it revalved to the rates I stated in my post of my shock upgrade or at run it then revalve. Length of the shock will have nearly nothing to do with the rate of damping. Weight is the key factor and that is nearly the same for my Trooper as yours.

Springs, Flatbed's posts of a couple years ago is going to get you in the ballpark for your use. He is a racer and even his first shock setups would be great for everyday use. Just remember this is suppose to be Fun so don't let your Trooper mods lead you down a road of unhappiness. Better to leave it as is and just run it to death having fun.

That other stuff you are dealing with, let your wife take care of it, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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Hey, I understand, I don't hear that good either. Too many power tools when I was young and no ear protection. Back then not too many made too much of an issue about hearing problems in the future. I also have attention deficit so I forget anything that is told to me as quick as I hear it too. Bottom line on the shocks is go with a good quality shock, I prefer Fox but there are others. Get a shock that has a bit more travel then the stock shocks, maybe another 1"-1.5" of travel and make sure you can change the compression and rebound dampening by switching the valving inside. Switching valving is very easy and doesn't take but about 15 minutes once the shocks are off. The shim sets for different valving are not but $5-$6 a set. Once you get 5 or 6 sets, you can pretty much cover all the different setings. Currently you have only about 9" of travel on the rear and about 8" on the front, or it's the other way around dispite what the Joyner literature said. Without changing anything, you can easily move that up to probably 11" or so just by having a bit more shock travel. Get coil over shocks with the duel coil hardward for more flexibility. A single spring is ok too, but with a double spring you can get the first part of the ride to be real soft and yet have the lower stronger springs for taking bigger hits that you will come across in regular riding. I'm not talking the kind of hits I can take, but those 6" and 7" high sharp bumps that will bottom your soft suspension if it's soft all the way or jar your teeth if it's too stiff. There is always a happy medium with a single spring setup. Not quite as soft for starter nor quite an forgiving on the harder hits but still well acceptable and a ton better then stock suspension. Once you have your shocks, you can play around with springs. I bought several springs off Ebay for playing with, If they didn't work, I just sold them back to someone else on Ebay. Pretty much a wash on the money side. This is an easy way to start and you can probably guess on a good spring rate for starters that will work OK. I would say about a 500# per inch for a single shock setup on the rear. The stock spring can be used for starters but they are more like more like about 600# or more. You can get a better ride out of a lighter spring and control it with dampening to take just as big of hits. The nice thing abut this aproach is that you can take it to any level you want in the future just by changing springs and valving. A double spring setup gives a lot more flexibility for future changes. Even if you don't change anything in the future, With this aproach you don't have to worry about getting a bunch of money into something just to find out it doesn't work very good. If this set up doesn't work good at first, just change valving or the springs. This setup will allow you to get to a really nice suspension even if you start out wrong. A good adjustable shock can go from bad suspension to perfect suspension in the right hands without buying different shocks. Just buy good base suspension componets and you can take it anywhere you want without re-purchasing or being afraid of making a big mistake.

Lenny

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So I found this old thread you are referring to where Flatbed was having a discussion with you and Lenny. Good stuff! I think I'm starting to have a grasp (maybe a little) of how this all works. So it seems that a Fox 2.0 with 8.5 travel will work on the rear suspension with an 8 inch 300# tender over a 10 inch 600# primary. Now if I DO NOT lower my rear diff; will I need to relocate the bottom mounts even farther back? (Flatbed says he moved his 3/4 of an inch rearward.) The same shock on the front will require new top mount locations because the shock is 2.5 inches too long. Hmmmm.....might not be too bad to fab; but how can we minimize the fabrication? I'd be a bit uncomfortable messing with the core frame, but I'll have to take a closer study of what I have and see if a different shock tower can be acheived. So far it doesn't freak me out too bad; and I'm not too much against doing a hood cutout for the towers; but engineering problems with shock angles , I have no idea of the consequences. I'd like to see some pics of the tower fabrication. I had asked Lenny awhile back, but he had been injured and probably forgot. Pics are worth a thousand words; and with MY comprehension, they're worth a billion words. :)

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That other stuff you are dealing with, let your wife take care of it, LOL!

Hmmm..... I wonder if she would like using a duel action sander on our Mini project? :lol:

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What info do we need to buy a shock? Do we need eye to, stroke, shock body length? I am not sure what length of shock to buy I guess.

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Hi Silverbullet

We just sold Larry Quigly a set of AFCO shocks set up for Troppers.See what he thinks.They were 1425.00 for a complete set.The only thing we had to due is weld 1/2 inch washer because the uniball was 1/2.In the future we will have spaces made.We also have Bilstein shocks custom made for Troopers they came with res. bilt in 1875.00 they bolt right in.For any body these shocks will work out great they ride soft can take the woops real well.No bottoming out and plenty of travel.All the other stuff is for pure racing and unless you race you dont need them.Its a Tropper not a race buggy.Then Spend 1000.00 of dollers on race buggys!

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So I found this old thread you are referring to where Flatbed was having a discussion with you and Lenny. Good stuff! I think I'm starting to have a grasp (maybe a little) of how this all works. So it seems that a Fox 2.0 with 8.5 travel will work on the rear suspension with an 8 inch 300# tender over a 10 inch 600# primary. Now if I DO NOT lower my rear diff; will I need to relocate the bottom mounts even farther back? (Flatbed says he moved his 3/4 of an inch rearward.) The same shock on the front will require new top mount locations because the shock is 2.5 inches too long. Hmmmm.....might not be too bad to fab; but how can we minimize the fabrication? I'd be a bit uncomfortable messing with the core frame, but I'll have to take a closer study of what I have and see if a different shock tower can be acheived. So far it doesn't freak me out too bad; and I'm not too much against doing a hood cutout for the towers; but engineering problems with shock angles , I have no idea of the consequences. I'd like to see some pics of the tower fabrication. I had asked Lenny awhile back, but he had been injured and probably forgot. Pics are worth a thousand words; and with MY comprehension, they're worth a billion words. :)

I'll get some pics of my front setup for you to see. It's not too bad to do and you don't really have to get into the guts of the frame. You will be coming off the top of existing frame.

Lenny

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Bottom line,its not a 4x4 tahoe,its made for off road.Yes the ride can be improved.This is my first off road vehicle.I did at one time enjoy buying and restoring VW bugs and selling them for a profit and those i bought that were not worth doing all the body work on i would turn into baja bugs.I dont have the expertise or the money at this time to do a shock upgrade even though i would love to do so but that does not stop me from going out and having a great time.I can go as fast as i want and so far climbed and hill i wanted and the current ride has not come too much into play.I think is was Lenny who said it before,just go out and enjoy it.JMHO.

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