It won't come out!

[rocmoc]

OK, I need team help! I am finally replacing the original driveline with the replacement. It won't come out of the trans. I have removed & installed axles on this type of trans before but this one won't come out. I know about the clip and how it is suppose to come out with a couple of screwdrivers and a yank. Any ideas? If not I am scheduled to take my Trooper to a Driveline Shop in Tucson on Tues. HELP!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

I can't help, but best of luck, maybe a helper and a pry bar on each side. Can you supply any Photos?

[leenanj]

OK, I need team help! I am finally replacing the original driveline with the replacement. It won't come out of the trans. I have removed & installed axles on this type of trans before but this one won't come out. I know about the clip and how it is suppose to come out with a couple of screwdrivers and a yank. Any ideas? If not I am scheduled to take my Trooper to a Driveline Shop in Tucson on Tues. HELP!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

When I had the Trooper I got pretty good at changing it. I also had the welded on skid plate so there was no access until

I cut a few access holes in it.

But the trick I used and it worked quite well was I would drive my quad up behind it and get the winch attached to the drive line and it

would pull right off.

Getting the new one on takes some work also, that is where the access holes in the skid plate come into play.

[rocmoc]

Thanks Jimmy. I have removed the place entirely and am going to redo the installation of the plate.

Kinarfi, I will try to take pics. It maybe time for me to lower the diff like Flatbed. Then I could get the diff our of the way and deal with just the driveline.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Today I popped the axles out of the diff. Pulled the diff and removed the telescoping portion of the driveline. Pulling with a come-along the first pull snapped a single wrap of tie-down. Second pull snapped a double wrap of tie-down. Third pull was with a bolt thu the U-joint with chain to the come-along, nothing. So I soaked the end with penetrating oil. Back down the come-along and soaked it again. Really bad design as the end of the trans shift is exposed to the elements. I sure the clip-ring rusted in-place. I will try once more and off to the trans shop. At least they will have a super easy access to the remaining portion of shaft. Each pull was also assisted with a super long bar. The new driveline is correctly designed to ensure that the clip will not rust. Bummer!

I will lower the diff since everything is removed.

I am taking pics!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

Is the new one drive shafts or CV shafts?

[rocmoc]

I WON! Let it soak for a couple of hours, put a good pull on it and out it came. Did not have to even use the bar. I have to say, the brakes were not enough to hold the Trooper in place. It just slide on the ground. I put a 2X6 between the rear of the Trooper and the hitch of my Truck. I was using the hitch on the rear of my Truck as the other pulling point. Anyway it is out and the new CV type driveline is in. Diff is still out so I will take another couple of pic before I reinstall the diff. Decided I already have too many irons in the fire to and more.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

Did you have to pay for the new drive line?

[rocmoc]

My driveline has been making noise even back when it was still in warranty. So they replaced it under the warranty. I just have not gotten around to changing it, playing a form of Russian Roulette. I figure with the new bigger tires I was just asking for trouble so finally changed it. The noise has been getting louder and louder. Both U-joints were still firmly installed but both had rough motion when worked by hand. Feels like the needle bearings are dry.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Lowering the diff. I am looking at a building a link that will bolt into the present mount locations and extend down to the new location instead of cutting out the old. I will update as I work thu the process with pics. The new links will have to be able to take the torque. Just now in the thought process.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

rocmoc, Just remember that the torque is comming from two different directions, both the axels and the input shaft. The main torque by far being the axels but the other needs to be allowed for. I figure you are already aware of this but just just in case your like me and have it dawn on you when your half done, I thought I would throw it out. I lowered mine to be about 3/4" below the underside of the frame. I had to make a good solid skid plate under it as it can take a more of a direct hit being lower. Going an extra 3/4" below ithe frame gives me an extra 3/4" of clearance except at the dif. It also gives me an extra 3/4" before I hit the fender.

Good luck with the changeover

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Thanks Lenny! Did you or Flatbed put any rubber washers in the new install to allow for flexing or bolt directly?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

Thanks Lenny! Did you or Flatbed put any rubber washers in the new install to allow for flexing or bolt directly?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I bolted mine directly. One other thing I forgot to mention is how you run the drive shaft to the dif. You have two choices. One is to run it like a stretched out "Z" or in other words the first bend being x degrees one way and the 2nd being bent the opposit direction x degrees. This is what is necessary if the output shaft of the trans and the input shaft of the diff are parellel. The second way which is better IMO is to run it as an arc. In other words, the first bend is Y degrees and the second bend is in the same dirction another Y degrees, thus like an continuing arc. In this scenario you must mount the dif so the input shaft points upwards towards the output of the trans. Doing it this way the angles at the cv joints themselves is less for both joints thus a cleaner drive train design. If you do it this way, measure the distance horzontially between the output and input shafts and their vertical difference. Draw it out to scale and place your new cv shaft over it. This way you can see exactly the angle up you want to put the dif. You are looking for the two cv angles to be close to equal.

Your doing this right. You are patient and wait for others to find the right approach and quarks then get it right the first time. Now if your like flatbed, you just know cars and are good to dig right in. You could be like me, I'm hipper and impatient, thank goodness less then when I was younger, I just dig in thinking I know what I'm doing and then see what others are doing. You get pretty good at doing things when you do everything twice. Good pratice.

Lenny

[Guest Lenny]

I was thinking about how you could put the dif in rubber and came up with the following thoughts, so I thought I would share them with you. As I think about rubber mounts for the dif, I'm not sure they would do much. The engine/trans is not on rubber but the cv shaft allows for vibration one direction and its ability to slide the other direction on the spleen connection should pretty much cancel out vibration to the dif. Tthe axels also have the same responses as they are mounted the same. If you use rubber mounts, you then need to consider rather they flex enough to over bend the axel cv joints. If they do you will have to lessen the 14 1/2" of wheel travel to allow for this.

Just thinking out loud.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

I was thinking just rubber washers between the diff and the mount. The mount will be the same as exist but just lower. Still will have the bolts running thu the tab mounts on the tubing and thu the diff. Just two large metal washers with a rubber washer between them installed between the diff and the tab. I have seen other direct mounted metal surfaces that fatigued after time and cracked one of the pieces. The weak link in our setup is the diff itself. The aluminum case could fatigue & crack after time.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

My vote would be no rubber, Mount the diff as solidly to the frame as possible, the diff needs to be solid so the CVs can transmit all the power in and out. If any thing moves any at all, it will wear, rubber will crumble and things will get loose, then sloppy. Also, the diff shouldn't be making any vibrations, noise either, but sometimes you can hear the gears working.

2 Cents

Jeff

[rocmoc]

I am listening. As Lenny said, I am posting on here before I do some upgrades so I do it correctly the first time. Too little time for all the fun I have to enjoy. Can't waste it reworking.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Mopartist]

This thread would be great if it had pics

[rocmoc]

I am taking pics. Have not had a chance to work on the Trooper in a couple of days. I will post pics.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

I will get pics up.

Finally had to just put the diff back in. Too many things going on to deal with lowering it and my buddy with the mig has been sick. Not as important to me since I put the big rims & tires on with the increase in ground clearance. Anyway, took it for a test drive. The cracking, cyclical noise was the driveline. All quiet now! I knew I was running on borrowed time. Now I have to redo the skid plate. Since I have one of the early ones, we had to cut it off. I wil replace with something I can remove if necessary in the future.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[flatbed]

You guys are thing u-joints in the drive line, you are running a cv joint, it does not mater. Look at your front axle with the cvs in the front axles, they are going every way you can think off with every angle. As far as mounting the diff i believe in rubber, but i do not think it would work good in the diff, to much movement to waller the holes. I mounted mine solid with extra gusets. Rocmoc the rear tires on you are leaning the wrong way alittle, the cv joint will work fine as long as it is not binding. My drive line i tried to keep paralel because of not knowing the bearing in the diff or the trany as to how strong they are.

[Kinarfi]

Flatbed remarked that your tires were leaning and it does look like that in your photo, is it? and if so, how can that be unless you've tweaked your suspension.

Kinarfi

[4x4x454]

Mine look the same way I thought maybe I tweaked something jumping but maybe not after seeing rocmocs.

[Guest Lenny]

I'm posting this again as my previous post never showed up, at least not yet. flatbed, you said you kept your, I assumed wheels, parellel. Isn't this a function of the as manufactured geometry? If you made changes to that, how did you do it. The only thing I see is that geometry would have to be changed but cannot just be adjusted. Looking at my Trooper, where the rear arm pivots at the frame, the outter pivot point bracket is about 3/32" lower then the inner bracket on both sides. I don't know rather this is normal or not. Maybe others could check theirs to see if these brackets are welded on consistantly accurate. My wheels set vertical. The other thing is that the axel is at about a 10 degree angle to a line drawn through the pivot point bolts. If you were to swing the arm to total vertical, of course you can't, the rear spindle would be pointing up at about a 10 degree angel. This would put the wheels tipped in on the top by 10 degrees. So as the arm goes from full droop to full bump, the angle of the wheels change. I havn't checked at which point in the suspension swing they are at vertical. Depending on where it is at when standing could thus effect the stance of the wheels. Right now my Troopers rear is about 4" down from full droop and I have 14 1/2" fo travel

Just some thoughts.

Lenny

[flatbed]

Maybe we are talking about 2 different things, i am talking about the drive line angles wether they are axles or the drive line. The back is a cv drive line now. When changing the location of the rear diff i lowered mine plus moved it forward changing all the angles fron stock, since we are running cv,s the same rules do not apply as they would if we were running u-joints.

[rocmoc]

On the early units there was some neg. camber in the rear wheels. Later they took it out. I don't mind it, lets me corner faster, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

I have the early Trooper with the wielded skid plates. I had to remove the one under the engine when I put the new driveline in. I am replacing with aluminum diamond plate. Question is, Diamonds in toward the engine or diamonds out towards the rocks & dirt? I don't think it really makes a difference and the seal/fit is better with the diamonds out. What ya think? I don't think aero drag and down-force is an issue, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[4x4x454]

On mine the diamonds are up.

[Guest Lenny]

I would put the smooth side down. If you get high centered, you'll be glad you did, especially on dirt. I would think you would want the bottom to be as smooth as possible to skim better over anything it may come in contact with. I plan on adding skid plates to the areas under the seats and floor boards. Twice now I clipped a rock that kicked up and bottomed quite hard along the underside of my Trooper. The step from the skid plates to the floor plates caught the rock both times and the tubing took a heavy impacting blow each time. One tube is actually punched in 1/2 it's diameter. This is an extreme example of what an uneven underside contributes to. Another time I high cenbtered with a rock trapped in the area under the floor boards. It was impossible to manipulate it free and finally had to get wenched. IMHO the less you have to catch anything, the better.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Smooth side down, done deal. Thanks!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico