New Trooper Power Steering unit

[2scoops]

Nice work Rick. Thanks for the update. I can't wait to get mine in. I will start this weekend.

[ricksrb]

Lenny,

You are correct not only is mine heavier because its a T-4 but i also have added weight in the roof rack,plastic roof,windsheild,and the 2nd battery and box in front end.For the price and effort to install the power steering i think it is well worth the money,about the only other thing i can think of that would make such an improvement would be upgrading the shocks.

[Kinarfi]

Yes, nice install, I kept mine close to the gear box so I didn't have to change my box for clothes and tools that is under the hood, I'll take and post some new photos today now that it all painted are has been run for a while. Your's looks a little easier to install, would you take a few more photos of your mountings and did you have to cut your steering shafts?

Good job, Rick

Kinarfi

PS, still waiting parts so I can do the more power modification. I will keep you informed!

[bruhaw]

Yes, nice install, I kept mine close to the gear box so I didn't have to change my box for clothes and tools that is under the hood, I'll take and post some new photos today now that it all painted are has been run for a while. Your's looks a little easier to install, would you take a few more photos of your mountings and did you have to cut your steering shafts?

Good job, Rick

Kinarfi

PS, still waiting parts so I can do the more power modification. I will keep you informed!

Just wanted to let everyone know that they have upped the price to $560.00 so a 40% increase in a few weeks. They said it was a trial at that price and now the bracket and shaft come with it. No discounts. Not too happy but what can I do. Asked to have them exclude those parts but they won't.

[ricksrb]

Just wanted to let everyone know that they have upped the price to $560.00 so a 40% increase in a few weeks. They said it was a trial at that price and now the bracket and shaft come with it. No discounts. Not too happy but what can I do. Asked to have them exclude those parts but they won't.

I just got off the phone with Casey at Super ATV and did not do any good.He said it was an introductory offer for a few thats why the price was so low but during my converstaions originally nothing was said about it being introductory for a limited time.What they are selling now from what he says is a universal kit that should work on most buggies.Tweaking of the brackett and shaft will be needed.I think its just now they realize there is a small market with the troopers and now cashing in without even attempting to put out a kit that will bolt on to the trooper.

[Kinarfi]

I just got off the phone with Casey at Super ATV and did not do any good.He said it was an introductory offer for a few thats why the price was so low but during my converstaions originally nothing was said about it being introductory for a limited time.What they are selling now from what he says is a universal kit that should work on most buggies.Tweaking of the brackett and shaft will be needed.I think its just now they realize there is a small market with the troopers and now cashing in without even attempting to put out a kit that will bolt on to the trooper.

Myself, I expected this to happen and that's why I jumped on the deal! I think someone with a Trooper had made arrangements to meet with them, but don't know if it happened. It's still a pretty good price when you consider the other units are close to or more than a thousand and seems to be good little unit.

I got my parts from Banebots yesterday, so I'll be putting the high power mod on today and will try it the back yard on grass and will take photos now that it is all painted and a little prettier.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

Myself, I expected this to happen and that's why I jumped on the deal! I think someone with a Trooper had made arrangements to meet with them, but don't know if it happened. It's still a pretty good price when you consider the other units are close to or more than a thousand and seems to be good little unit.

I got my parts from Banebots yesterday, so I'll be putting the high power mod on today and will try it the back yard on grass and will take photos now that it is all painted and a little prettier.

Kinarfi

I dont think it happened,if it did i would expect them to have come up with a bolt on kit as they have for other models.Instead they will sell you what they cal a "unversal kit" which they claim will fit most buggies but trooper owners will more then likely have to do some tweaking on the brackett and who knows about the steering shaft.When Brohaw kits his kit he will let us know.

[Kinarfi]

Lenny has mentioned that he made an adapter for the power steering unit and is waiting for me to get it put on my Trooper and see if it has the power to handle the use of front locker. I have it installed and will test it tomorrow in the back yard on grass, I think trying in on pavement would be a mistake. So here are some photos I took with captions in the photo.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Kinarfi & Lenny,

This is my understanding from looking at the pics. You installed the reducer/helper between the electric motor and the power steering gearbox, correct ? I know this won't work with your setup but wouldn't be easier for us who are installing our power steering units under the dash to install the reducer/helper inline with the power steering unit and rack & pinion on the steering SHAFT ? This would occur on the long shaft after the power steering unit and before the rack & pinion. This should reduce the load on every component of the power steering unit while accomplishing the same task as your installation.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Kinarfi & Lenny,

This is my understanding from looking at the pics. You installed the reducer/helper between the electric motor and the power steering gearbox, correct ? I know this won't work with your setup but wouldn't be easier for us who are installing our power steering units under the dash to install the reducer/helper inline with the power steering unit and rack & pinion on the steering SHAFT ? This would occur on the long shaft after the power steering unit and before the rack & pinion. This should reduce the load on every component of the power steering unit while accomplishing the same task as your installation.

rocmoc n AZ

Only problem is that you will be turning the steering wheel 3 revs for every 1 you turned it before.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

I think this was mentioned before but what are the chances of getting more power out of the motor by way of more windings and/or better magnets? Its been a number of years ago but from what i recall where i use to work they would send AC motors out all the time to have them rebuilt when they burnt up or a bearing would go out and while out on some occassions would have them wound with a thicker wire or more windings to make them more powerfull.Like i said i its been a long time.

[Kinarfi]

Kinarfi & Lenny,

This is my understanding from looking at the pics. You installed the reducer/helper between the electric motor and the power steering gearbox, correct ? I know this won't work with your setup but wouldn't be easier for us who are installing our power steering units under the dash to install the reducer/helper inline with the power steering unit and rack & pinion on the steering SHAFT ? This would occur on the long shaft after the power steering unit and before the rack & pinion. This should reduce the load on every component of the power steering unit while accomplishing the same task as your installation.

rocmoc n AZ

Not a bad idea! Supply was one of the big factors here, I had the motor from my home made power steering and could order the gears, If say a planetary set were used on the shaft, someone would have to hunt down or build the reducer, other option might be to rebuild the rack and pinion with more teeth and a smaller pinion. But so far, the rpm of the geared down Banebot is only slightly less that the stock EZ motor.

I'll be driving it later to day and see what happens.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

I think this was mentioned before but what are the chances of getting more power out of the motor by way of more windings and/or better magnets? Its been a number of years ago but from what i recall where i use to work they would send AC motors out all the time to have them rebuilt when they burnt up or a bearing would go out and while out on some occassions would have them wound with a thicker wire or more windings to make them more powerfull.Like i said i its been a long time.

That is a definite possibility, the rc car people do it all the time, but I still think that unless you're hard core user of the front locker, the only place this system had problem, stock is very acceptable. My future plans are to scrutinize the mechanical operation of the sensing mechanism and see if I adjust it to a lighter touch.

I have run my steering with an ampmeter attached and noticed that as I turn from side to side, the amperage varies, but when I hit the end of travel, the current drops to 10 and stays there, this lead me to believe that the mechanics of the sensing system drives the sensor closer to home position and therefore, lower power input when the unit can't move any further in the applied direction. I'll have to look one of these days, other inquiring minds are welcome to pitch in.

Gotta go pick berries with a friend, more later.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

That is a definite possibility, the rc car people do it all the time, but I still think that unless you're hard core user of the front locker, the only place this system had problem, stock is very acceptable. My future plans are to scrutinize the mechanical operation of the sensing mechanism and see if I adjust it to a lighter touch.

I have run my steering with an ampmeter attached and noticed that as I turn from side to side, the amperage varies, but when I hit the end of travel, the current drops to 10 and stays there, this lead me to believe that the mechanics of the sensing system drives the sensor closer to home position and therefore, lower power input when the unit can't move any further in the applied direction. I'll have to look one of these days, other inquiring minds are welcome to pitch in.

Gotta go pick berries with a friend, more later.

Kinarfi

Thats where one of thoughts was also, I use to race RC Off road buggies and that was common.

[Guest Lenny]

Thats where one of thoughts was also, I use to race RC Off road buggies and that was common.

When you can buy a planitary gear box like Kinarfi is using and a banebot motor for about $100, it doesn't seem to make sense to try and find someone to rewind a motor. If your rewinding it yourself then that may be away to get some more power without spending the extra money but it won't match what the gearbox will do. The gearbox will give 3 times more power and you won't get that out of rewinding. Kinarfi, you can't change the sensing part of the steering box without going to a lighter torsion spring. That would be a tough one as the spring they use is a square wire custom spring designed by computer for the right torsion. It would be hard to figure out how to come up with slightly lighter torsion spring with out a lot of trial and error. You could however take the spring out and slip it over a mandral and grind the OD until the correct value desired was reached by going a bit at a time. As far as the spring allowing the sensor to shift slightly back towards neutral at the end of travel, I don't see any wayit can do that. One end of the spring is hooked to the input shaft and the other end is hooked to a collar that slides on spiroling grooves in the output shaft. The more torque that is put on the input shaft, the farther the collar shifts up or down the output shaft. It's this shifting of the collor that moves the arm on the potentiometer. There is nothing in the torque spring/collar setup to allow it to let up when it hits the end of travel. I suspect that when the controller sees a value coming from the potentiometer that exceeds a certain value it cuts back the amperage to the motor. Can't wait until Kinarfi does the testing. I'm betting the steering has bunches of power. If the power head can take the extra torque things should be fine. I feel that the box is designed to take hits form deep chuck holes and probably has a high safty factor built into it for liability reasons. Kinarfi will have to determine if the controller can handle it. I'm just fairly good with mechanical stuff but he is exceptional with electronics.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Only problem is that you will be turning the steering wheel 3 revs for every 1 you turned it before.

Lenny

Duh ! 6 turns lock to lock, there goes short track racing.

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

Duh ! 6 turns lock to lock, there goes short track racing.

rocmoc n AZ

Not quite like that, the motor makes 3 instead of 1, but because torque is lower, speed is higher and when check rpm on the bench with both motors getting the same voltage, I had 1200 on the geared down Banebot motor and 1400 on the EZ motor. It won't change the number of turns lock to lock.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Not quite like that, the motor makes 3 instead of 1, but because torque is lower, speed is higher and when check rpm on the bench with both motors getting the same voltage, I had 1200 on the geared down Banebot motor and 1400 on the EZ motor. It won't change the number of turns lock to lock.

Kinarfi

Talking about in-line installation between the Power Steering Unit and the Rack & Pinion. Agree in your configuration no difference. I had a SM (Senior Moment) and forgot about the Lock to Lock if in-line.

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

Well, I got the banebot motor on and took it out for a short ride to see how it worked, drove it about 10 blocks (round trip) and came home and took it off. All it did was make it harder to turn and feel sluggish, even when in 4x4 / with lockers, it was harder to turn, to test the 4x4 locker in, I go to a place that has a graveled parking lot. To see how it does in 4x4 only, I make circle in the church parking lot and it always the tires squeal. After I got it back to stock, I went out and tried it again, definitely better in stock condition! Don't know why, but it is.

Wish I had my money back for the gears, oh well, live and learn.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

I got a PM from ricksrb referring to http://www.autospeed...ms/article.html and asked if this mod could get more power from the EZSteer from SuperATV.

The easy answer is no. However, if you want less assist from it, which is what the article is about, that's pretty simple, just need to make some measurement to give me and idea of the value of resistors to order and add to the system. What you would do is add a pair precision resistors by cutting them into the leads from the sensor pot. One between the pot on the + supply voltage and one between the pot and - supply voltage, That way the output from the sensor would vary less from the 0 point (straight ahead and no input). The larger the value of the added resistors, the less the varying from 0, the smaller value, the closer to stock. But since this is such a good idea for those who want less assist, I'll have to see if I can get something to work for more assist.

As for more power, no, just less sensitivity, and I'm working on a more sensitivity mod.

How the controller works still needs to be explored and may well be some day, but for now, I'm just going to use it as is. Maybe during the winter months.

Kinarfi

Edited September 18, 2011 by Kinarfi

[bruhaw]

Well thanks to Rick I have power steering now. Before we started I had to have Super ATV send the right u-joint as they sent two u-joints with spline and shaft ends and for our installation you need one of the u-joint's to have spline ends on both. The u-joint they have is a 24 spline which is actually more like a 32 but they call it a 24 spline. It is because it is split that there are actually on 24 splines you can count. It works so that is all that matters. They had to overnight to me as the kit they originally sent for $560.00 now didn't have it in there. They do send a flat piece of steel that is cut out and drilled for the power head. Won't do much for our installation at all.

Now for the installation. Rick made double of everything he did so all we had to do was bolt up the bracket he made to the firewall and use the steering shaft he put together that ends up sliding over the existing smaller diameter steering shaft. Cut the existing shaft about 4 inches and then slide it over and bolt up the u-joint. Wired everything up and the unit worked fine. No adjustments needed to be made at all except lining up the steering wheel. It made a world of difference on asphalt so I know it will be even that much easier on dirt. Very pleased.

So, thank you Rick for all your help on this one in taking time out of your day to come over and help install and making the brackets and shaft adapter. I owe you.

[ricksrb]

Well thanks to Rick I have power steering now. Before we started I had to have Super ATV send the right u-joint as they sent two u-joints with spline and shaft ends and for our installation you need one of the u-joint's to have spline ends on both. The u-joint they have is a 24 spline which is actually more like a 32 but they call it a 24 spline. It is because it is split that there are actually on 24 splines you can count. It works so that is all that matters. They had to overnight to me as the kit they originally sent for $560.00 now didn't have it in there. They do send a flat piece of steel that is cut out and drilled for the power head. Won't do much for our installation at all.

Now for the installation. Rick made double of everything he did so all we had to do was bolt up the bracket he made to the firewall and use the steering shaft he put together that ends up sliding over the existing smaller diameter steering shaft. Cut the existing shaft about 4 inches and then slide it over and bolt up the u-joint. Wired everything up and the unit worked fine. No adjustments needed to be made at all except lining up the steering wheel. It made a world of difference on asphalt so I know it will be even that much easier on dirt. Very pleased.

So, thank you Rick for all your help on this one in taking time out of your day to come over and help install and making the brackets and shaft adapter. I owe you.

Bruhaw,

Your very welcome,glad i could help after the trouble you went through.Anyone ordering the unit from them now should make sure they ask for the correct u-joint,as bruhaw mentioned, they now are selling what they call a "universal kit" for $560 and the brakett as well as the u-joints they sent out with his are useless for our application.

[2scoops]

Thanks to Rick for everything he did with the powersteering find.

Got mine installed & wired. It was turning to the left so I centered while not hooked up to the steering shaft & put it back together. I went for a drive and it decided it wanted to start turning left again, so that was annoying--further ajustment needed there.

Its amazing how effortless the steering is. I was on pavement in 4x4 but never got above 30 MPH. I alway new the 2:1 steering ratio on the Trooper was quick, but the powersteering accentuates it tenfold. It was a little un-nerving how quickly it turned. It will just be something I will have to get used to now. If I don't like it while driving at high speeds I may install a power switch. But, if Banjow Minnow can handle his hydraulic set up at high speeds without Lenny's steering upgrade, then I should be fine. Plus, the added shock absorption that these units have built in should also build my confidence. That said, I can't wait to get out on the Trails and be able to turn with one hand while keeping my other hand on the gear shift.

I mounted mine completely recessed in the dash. I chopped the stock sheering shaft down to where it just protruded out of the pivot bearing and re-welded. Even with that the steering wheel now sits 1" further back than it was. I also lowered the angle of the steering wheel about 10-15 degrees. It now feels more race-car-ish and less bus-driver-ish. I welded their coupler onto our steering shaft on the output side. I just clamped their coupler onto the steering wheel shaft. I am not really happy with that because they are a different spline count, but the only other alternative I feel would be 100% is to weld it, or buy a whole new steering wheel shaft with their spline count.

I will be keeping an eye on it to see if there is any slippage. Besides, on the input side it would take the arm strength of the driver to overpower those splines. The extra power of the powersteering would only be a factor on the output side.

I still have some grinding, cutting, & paint left then I will post picks.

[ricksrb]

Thanks to Rick for everything he did with the powersteering find.

Got mine installed & wired. It was turning to the left so I centered while not hooked up to the steering shaft & put it back together. I went for a drive and it decided it wanted to start turning left again, so that was annoying--further ajustment needed there.

Its amazing how effortless the steering is. I was on pavement in 4x4 but never got above 30 MPH. I alway new the 2:1 steering ratio on the Trooper was quick, but the powersteering accentuates it tenfold. It was a little un-nerving how quickly it turned. It will just be something I will have to get used to now. If I don't like it while driving at high speeds I may install a power switch. But, if Banjow Minnow can handle his hydraulic set up at high speeds without Lenny's steering upgrade, then I should be fine. Plus, the added shock absorption that these units have built in should also build my confidence. That said, I can't wait to get out on the Trails and be able to turn with one hand while keeping my other hand on the gear shift.

I mounted mine completely recessed in the dash. I chopped the stock sheering shaft down to where it just protruded out of the pivot bearing and re-welded. Even with that the steering wheel now sits 1" further back than it was. I also lowered the angle of the steering wheel about 10-15 degrees. It now feels more race-car-ish and less bus-driver-ish. I welded their coupler onto our steering shaft on the output side. I just clamped their coupler onto the steering wheel shaft. I am not really happy with that because they are a different spline count, but the only other alternative I feel would be 100% is to weld it, or buy a whole new steering wheel shaft with their spline count.

I will be keeping an eye on it to see if there is any slippage. Besides, on the input side it would take the arm strength of the driver to overpower those splines. The extra power of the powersteering would only be a factor on the output side.

I still have some grinding, cutting, & paint left then I will post picks.

Thank you 2scoops but the credit for the find goes to plumber.I only made some calls to them and arranged the pricing,which not they have increased and selling u-joints and brackett we cant use.Glad to hear you are happy with it.Looking forward to the photos.

[rocmoc]

I will start working on my install tomorrow. I have to do the lay out, maybe a few removal of pieces and may have to travel to get metal if I don't have it in my stock before I can go full speed.

Where did you all tie into for electrical current, ignition switch?

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

I will start working on my install tomorrow. I have to do the lay out, maybe a few removal of pieces and may have to travel to get metal if I don't have it in my stock before I can go full speed.

Where did you all tie into for electrical current, ignition switch?

rocmoc n AZ

I added a terminal strip to mine under the dash that powers when the ignition switch is turned on. The terminal strip has several connections that allow me to add anything needing switched power easily. Just put a spade connector on the wire and slip it under the screw and your done. Actually I have 2 terminal strips under the dash, one is not switched but hooked directly to the battery. This is the one that I hook the power sourse side of relays to for things like my compressor. The relays are then switch activated by switches on the dash or when the ignition switch is turned on.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

I will start working on my install tomorrow. I have to do the lay out, maybe a few removal of pieces and may have to travel to get metal if I don't have it in my stock before I can go full speed.

Where did you all tie into for electrical current, ignition switch?

rocmoc n AZ

I have the 2nd battery located under the hood so i went straight there with the pos & neg.tied the white wire that goes to the switch to the yellow wire at the four wire harness plug that goes up to the ignition switch.On brohaws we tied the pos & neg to the wire connections for the winch,it has a good connection points there.

[Kinarfi]

I ran a piece of #10 wire to the battery disconnect switch for the positive and drilled and tapped a 10-32 in the frame near where I mounted the controller, filed off the paint for good contact for the negative, the whiter wire goes to the key, not ignition, but power on.

tie the white to the key on position, #1 (dark blue on the diagram)

If the system seems to favor turning left or right, put a volt meter on the leads to the motor and adjust the pot for 0 volts.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

I am thinking about installing a dash mount on/off switch in-line so the power steering can be turned off at high speed on hard-pack & blacktop. I now have heard of two people complaining about the steering becoming twitchy at speed with the power steering & the factory steering rack. One with our unit & another with the factory Joyner electric power steering.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

I am thinking about installing a dash mount on/off switch in-line so the power steering can be turned off at high speed on hard-pack & blacktop. I now have heard of two people complaining about the steering becoming twitchy at speed with the power steering & the factory steering rack. One with our unit & another with the factory Joyner electric power steering.

rocmoc n AZ

Maybe the twitching is the wife poking the driver to slow down. On off switches for wives are much more expensive. Gems make a good switch.

Lenny