New Trooper Power Steering unit

[ricksrb]

yep, call me, sent you PM

Casey sent me a PDF file with a few photos on how to do it.I tried to post it here but could not.Anyone interested PM me with email address and i will send it to you.

[Guest Lenny]

Lenny, empty you mail box,

On your new steering unit;

#1 Have you disassembled your new steering unit yet?

#2 Can I borrow your stock steering box back?

#3 Have you come up with any mounting ideas yet?

Inside the steering unit, there is channel that a spring loaded pot rides in and as you apply torque, the channel mover forward or backward and the pot follows it and sends a signal to the computer which powers the motor. The channel appears to be Acme thread with a very steep pitch, That's as far as I got, (so Far) so it you go further, can you take photos?

Kinarfi

No I havn't taken it apart but I pretty much know what is in it. The way they are using the sensor circuit is not that far away from what I was doing on mine except I was doing it a bit more mechanicaly. My setup first pushed one of two micro switchs that told it which way I was turning then rotated a hall type sensor that was spring rotated that told the controller how much power to add. Mine worked fine but the hall sensor wasn't not doing it's job fully and wasn't as linear as I hoped. These units are much more highly engineered and have much more development put into the controllers. Both of us were on the right track but lacked the big bucks and background to take it to the level the auto suppliers have.

Yes you can borrow my steering box however I do want it back along with the parts you still have. I may go back to it if I can't get the play out of mine. Why do you need it? I know that I can get the play out of the stock box with the upgrade kit and it is quite solid. If I have to move the rack a bit closer to the pinion gear, I can take a few thousands out of the bottom to bring the two closer. Can't remember if the pinion gear is a little too far from the rack to eliminate the play there.

The mounting looks like it is going to be a snap. I'll be getting into it today. I will be supporting it from both sides so it doesn't add side forces to the steering column. Thus the bar that mounts to the power head will stick out both sides. Then I will run two connecting links with a swival joint on each end to the frame someplace. This way the power head will completely float without adding side forces along with be allowed to move to follow the the slight side to side movement of the column caused buy the rotation of the u-joints at the ends. Lenny

[ricksrb]

No I havn't taken it apart but I pretty much know what is in it. The way they are using the sensor circuit is not that far away from what I was doing on mine except I was doing it a bit more mechanicaly. My setup first pushed one of two micro switchs that told it which way I was turning then rotated a hall type sensor that was spring rotated that told the controller how much power to add. Mine worked fine but the hall sensor wasn't not doing it's job fully and wasn't as linear as I hoped. These units are much more highly engineered and have much more development put into the controllers. Both of us were on the right track but lacked the big bucks and background to take it to the level the auto suppliers have.

Yes you can borrow my steering box however I do want it back along with the parts you still have. I may go back to it if I can't get the play out of mine. Why do you need it? I know that I can get the play out of the stock box with the upgrade kit and it is quite solid. If I have to move the rack a bit closer to the pinion gear, I can take a few thousands out of the bottom to bring the two closer. Can't remember if the pinion gear is a little too far from the rack to eliminate the play there.

The mounting looks like it is going to be a snap. I'll be getting into it today. I will be supporting it from both sides so it doesn't add side forces to the steering column. Thus the bar that mounts to the power head will stick out both sides. Then I will run two connecting links with a swival joint on each end to the frame someplace. This way the power head will completely float without adding side forces along with be allowed to move to follow the the slight side to side movement of the column caused buy the rotation of the u-joints at the ends. It's almost too easy.

Lenny

Photos,photos and more photos.Video would be nice too(LOL)

[rocmoc]

Rick sending you a PM for the PDF file

Thanks,

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

Photos,photos and more photos.Video would be nice too(LOL)

AGREE, agree !

[ricksrb]

Rick sending you a PM for the PDF file

Thanks,

rocmoc n AZ

Got it, sent it...

[Kinarfi]

Yes you can borrow my steering box however I do want it back along with the parts you still have. I may go back to it if I can't get the play out of mine. Why do you need it? I know that I can get the play out of the stock box with the upgrade kit and it is quite solid. If I have to move the rack a bit closer to the pinion gear, I can take a few thousands out of the bottom to bring the two closer. Can't remember if the pinion gear is a little too far from the rack to eliminate the play there.

Disregard my request, what I was going to look at is mounting the new unit directly in line with the input pinion, maybe come up with a spline to spline rigid coupler so it is shorter and maybe support the unit from the output side rather than the input side.

Looking at what I have of your original rack, it's just the rack with the ends, the boots got put on mine some time back. I also have a cap and bearing holder, but I believe they both came off mine and were replaced with your upgrade cap and a plate that mounts my current power steering unit.

Just checked the splines of the new unit and they fit our splines, though tighter.

[ricksrb]

Disregard my request, what I was going to look at is mounting the new unit directly in line with the input pinion, maybe come up with a spline to spline rigid coupler so it is shorter and maybe support the unit from the output side rather than the input side.

Looking at what I have of your original rack, it's just the rack with the ends, the boots got put on mine some time back. I also have a cap and bearing holder, but I believe they both came off mine and were replaced with your upgrade cap and a plate that mounts my current power steering unit.

Just checked the splines of the new unit and they fit our splines, though tighter.

I havent checked the shaft out of the steering box but the spline on the end of the steering wheel shaft is smaller then the one on the input side of the power steering unit head.The two universals they sent has a smaller opening on one end then the other.The small end does fit onto the steering wheel shaft spline but as you said it is a little tight and the larger end goes on the input side of the steering unit.

[Guest Lenny]

I havent checked the shaft out of the steering box but the spline on the end of the steering wheel shaft is smaller then the one on the input side of the power steering unit head.The two universals they sent has a smaller opening on one end then the other.The small end does fit onto the steering wheel shaft spline but as you said it is a little tight and the larger end goes on the input side of the steering unit.

The upper splines are different. Ours is 31 teeth and the new one is I think 34 teeth. I do however think they wold still work if you get it good and tight. But, thank goodness we know how to deal with Chineese stuff. The bolt that holds the u-joint on is too far away from the shaft so if it loosens , the spline will slide off like we had on the stock upper U-joint. It will need to be drilled out and brought up to a 3/8" bolt to do the job. I'm not sure I like that as there isn't a lot of meat around the bolt hole as is. I'm going to look at it closer tomorrow and may very well put a set screw in from the opposit side of the bolt to keep it from sliding off. If I don't do that, I will build up weld around the bolt holes to strengthen that area. I want it to be strong. Got mine pretty well worked out. Past the starring at it stage. I don't like the idea of 4 u-joints so my setup will do it different, I'll post pics and description when done, hopefully tomorrow. My steering head seems to already be centered.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

The upper splines are different. Ours is 31 teeth and the new one is I think 34 teeth. I do however think they wold still work if you get it good and tight. But, thank goodness we know how to deal with Chineese stuff. The bolt that holds the u-joint on is too far away from the shaft so if it loosens , the spline will slide off like we had on the stock upper U-joint. It will need to be drilled out and brought up to a 3/8" bolt to do the job. I'm not sure I like that as there isn't a lot of meat around the bolt hole as is. I'm going to look at it closer tomorrow and may very well put a set screw in from the opposit side of the bolt to keep it from sliding off. If I don't do that, I will build up weld around the bolt holes to strengthen that area. I want it to be strong. Got mine pretty well worked out. Past the starring at it stage. I don't like the idea of 4 u-joints so my setup will do it different, I'll post pics and description when done, hopefully tomorrow. My steering head seems to already be centered.

Lenny

I test fitted my u joint and actually had to open it up a slight bit in order for it to slide on to the spline.Once on and with bolt installed it would not slide off.Larger side of u joint that goes onto input side of steering unit is as you say,even with bolt installed it could slide off.The way i am looking at it i would only have the two u joints,it might need a little mod work on the firewall.

[Kinarfi]

Not sure if the spline count is different or not, I had to use a hammer to get mine on and off, their's may just be more tightly machine than what came on the Trooper. My plan is to put one of their U joints on the steering box, then the power unit, cut the stock solid inner shaft about in half, take the half without the U joint and machine the end down, maybe put spline one or just machine it down so it fits into their spline tightly and clamp and weld solid, cut a few inches off the stock hollow outer shaft and mount it's U joint to the steering wheel shaft. I will make a mounting ring and weld straps from that to the frame to support the power head. I will end up with 3 U joints.

Kinarfi

EDIT, the U joint bolts they supply need to be replaced with longer bolts that have a shank that goes just past slot where the bolt goes through, with that, I think the shank will keep the U joint from coming off the shaft, even if slightly loose.

[Guest Lenny]

Be sure that you drop your shock and raise your suspension up all the way before choosing an install point.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Question i have for you guys,would it not make sense that on the power steering unit one of the shafts would be the input(from the steering wheel shaft) and one would be the output?(from unit to shaft going to steering box)? I had that question to Casey and his reply was did not matter,would work either way.

[rocmoc]

Going to make two points.

Point ONE, So you guys, mainly Kinarfi as I believe he is the only one to layout a plan, are going to mount the power steering unit near the rack. Correct ? Why that location?

Point TWO, I am looking at installing high at the support bar where the U-joints are behind dash. Reason; the power steering unit is electrical and the unit & all components would be less likely to get WET ! U-joints & shaft already take the load from turning wheels, no diff to existing system. Thoughts !

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

Going to make two points.

Point ONE, So you guys, mainly Kinarfi as I believe he is the only one to layout a plan, are going to mount the power steering unit near the rack. Correct ? Why that location?

Point TWO, I am looking at installing high at the support bar where the U-joints are behind dash. Reason; the power steering unit is electrical and the unit & all components would be less likely to get WET ! U-joints & shaft already take the load from turning wheels, no diff to existing system. Thoughts !

rocmoc n AZ

rocmoc,

I too have the same idea as you(see my post #101 above) to mount it up high.I removed the existing shaft and upper u joint and test fitted the unit with the power head and it actually looks like it might be at a slight less angle for the shaft down to the steering box then what the stock shaft is at.There might have to be a little mod work on the firewall(cutting a small section out) but locating it there would also make it up against the cross member of the frame for making a brackett very easy.Like i said it was just a quick test fit,havent really got into it much because of lack of time and still have most of my tools in storage after our recent move but hope to get on it sometime this weekend if i can get things out of storage.

[Kinarfi]

Going to make two points.

Point ONE, So you guys, mainly Kinarfi as I believe he is the only one to layout a plan, are going to mount the power steering unit near the rack. Correct ? Why that location?

Point TWO, I am looking at installing high at the support bar where the U-joints are behind dash. Reason; the power steering unit is electrical and the unit & all components would be less likely to get WET ! U-joints & shaft already take the load from turning wheels, no diff to existing system. Thoughts !

rocmoc n AZ

Yes, at present, it is my plan to come off the rack with their u joint to power head to their u joint to my inner shaft which is cut and machined down to fit into their u joint to my outer shaft that has my u joint to my steering shaft. Reason: only one u joint between power head and rack, I have a storage box under the hood and I would have to modify or make a new one if power head is closer to the steering shaft. Mud, dirt and water are of no concern, the unit is well sealed. BUT NOTHING IS DEFINITE, YET!!!!

I think the question in 101 is which side is input and which is out put, The side with the gold cover and the mounting bolt holes is your input, the other side is connected inside to the motor.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

Yes, at present, it is my plan to come off the rack with their u joint to power head to their u joint to my inner shaft which is cut and machined down to fit into their u joint to my outer shaft that has my u joint to my steering shaft. Reason: only one u joint between power head and rack, I have a storage box under the hood and I would have to modify or make a new one if power head is closer to the steering shaft.

I think the question in 101 is which side is input and which is out put, The side with the gold cover and the mounting bolt holes is your input, the other side is connected inside to the motor.

Kinarfi

I thought it made a difference but according to Casey at Super UTV he says it does not matter which shaft is the input or output.

[Kinarfi]

I thought it made a difference but according to Casey at Super UTV he says it does not matter which shaft is the input or output.

I disagree very strongly!!!!!!! if you get a bump steer, it will force the steering wheel to follow--------- Let me restate my position!

WRONG ! IT DOES MATTER, INPUT SENSOR IS UNDER THE GOLD COVER

and the other side will follow!!!

[2scoops]

Cut box open, looked at unit, closed box. So far this week, I have had to shuttle kids to first day of school, soccer practice, cub scouts, & jiu jitsu. Oh, and my wife expects me to attend our anniversary dinner and do something for her birtday (all this week also). She has my priorities all screwed up. Then, I have military duty this weekend.

This will give you guys time to hash everything out and give me a good place to start--thanks ahead of time

[Guest Lenny]

I fully agree with Kinarfi. The input shaft from the steering wheel is the black anadized side. Think about, it if when you turn the steeering wheel, it powers the wheels to turn then if it were reversed, when the wheels pushed agaginst the steering wheel,, it would power back through the steering wheel. Hoping to have mine done today. Only ghave 2 u-jooints, one at the top and one at the bottom. None at the power head.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

I disagree very strongly!!!!!!! if you get a bump steer, it will force the steering wheel to follow--------- Let me restate my position!

WRONG ! IT DOES MATTER, INPUT SENSOR IS UNDER THE GOLD COVER

and the other side will follow!!!

NO NEED TO SHOOT THE MESSENGER BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE...

Only relaying what i was told...

[rocmoc]

Popped the hood and this is what I AM DOING !

I am mounting my unit under the dash. I am not changing the LONG steering shaft at all. I am putting the power steering unit between the top U-Joint and the small shaft the steering wheel is bolted to. There are two bolts under the dash that holds that shaft in place. I am moving that mount towards the driver enough to allow the power steering unit to be mounted in-line. No changes to any of the angles on the U-joints or shaft alignments. If the steering wheel is too close, there is plenty of shaft that can be shorten AT the Steering Wheel mounting plate (of course I will not cut anything until after a test drive). It is just a flat plate that is weld in place. This setup will leave all the shafts & U-joints as strong and as well designed as it is when it came from the factory. LOL !

Kinarfi, you should not have to redesign you tool bin. You may have to pull it out to do the work but the power steering unit is tucked up under the dash.

Just my humble plan. Of course it will be weeks before I get to it. I will try to do it in late Oct., first block of free time.

Also took the time to look at and move the steering arms and rack. Only slack I have is in the quality rack. Everything else is tight !

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

Side note anyway,

I can't mount down at the rack because the unit & shaft will hit my gas tank. Remember I have the front tank and it hangs down in the front and would block any installation down in that dirty, wet location, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

Side note anyway,

I can't mount down at the rack because the unit & shaft will hit my gas tank. Remember I have the front tank and it hangs down in the front and would block any installation down in that dirty, wet location, LOL!

rocmoc n AZ

you keep mentioning wet..The only way it could get any moisture on it where you ride is if a lizard was to sneeze as you passed by it.(LOL)

[rocmoc]

It is dry most of the time but 5% of the time I am making a river crossing, yes the Santa Cruz River has water in it all the time, and a few stream crossings in the wet seasons. PLUS when I hookup with the rest of the crowd at the Jamborees there is water. We had quite a bit of water crossings this year.

YOU did make me laugh, I have never seen a Lizard sneeze. Make a phone call and sell insurance but never sneeze LOL !

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

It is dry most of the time but 5% of the time I am making a river crossing, yes the Santa Cruz River has water in it all the time, and a few stream crossings in the wet seasons. PLUS when I hookup with the rest of the crowd at the Jamborees there is water. We had quite a bit of water crossings this year.

YOU did make me laugh, I have never seen a Lizard sneeze. Make a phone call and sell insurance but never sneeze LOL !

rocmoc n AZ

Well,if they can sell insurance and make a phone call why not sneeze.you gotta be open minded..(LOL) I know on one hot day while driving through the hills of Havasu we had a lizard hitch a ride on my exhaust manifold,he said the ground was too hot to walk on.Didnt mention anything to me about insurance.He was on his cell phone most of the time though.

[rocmoc]

Well,if they can sell insurance and make a phone call why not sneeze.you gotta be open minded..(LOL) I know on one hot day while driving through the hills of Havasu we had a lizard hitch a ride on my exhaust manifold,he said the ground was too hot to walk on.Didnt mention anything to me about insurance.He was on his cell phone most of the time though.

LOL ! Watch the heat, I think it is getting to you. It was 105 here today.

Just had a thought, maybe your lizard will do your power steering install ! Roadrunners eat and feed my lizards to their babies. They love lizard, taste like chicken ! Lizard also makes good boots & belts.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Got it installed. My set up is a little different then others but the basics are the same. Still have to mount the controller and haven't driven it yet. Here is my impression. When mine was on the bench, it acted like it was centered but once installed it pulled one way. I was able to adjust that out of it but exact centering seemed hard to find. The steering wheel always seems to want to go one way or the other when you let go. Not enough to turn the wheels but we'll see when were cruising in a straight line. Even then I don't think you will notice it unless you let go of the steering wheel then it might want to pull slightly. When I turn on the ignition the steering wheel usually kicks a little. My previous power steering did the same thing sometimes. The power seems to be ok but I'm running a 3:1 ratio rack and pinion and stock is 2:1, give or take. I think the feel of it when driving is going to be just about right. The big test will be when in 4x4 full lockout. I'll try that tomorrow when I drive it. There too I think it will be fine. I was sort of susprised that it acted real close to my more mechanical power steering when it was running right. Had about the same power and engaged about the same but smoother and disengaged smoother. Did notice that the motor and controller gets quite warm but that was when going back and forth with the steering while stopped and on a cement floor. So far I'm satisfied with it and feel it's going to work just fine but it is not quite like your car. I have pictures that I will post soon.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Got it installed. My set up is a little different then others but the basics are the same. Still have to mount the controller and haven't driven it yet. Here is my impression. When mine was on the bench, it acted like it was centered but once installed it pulled one way. I was able to adjust that out of it but exact centering seemed hard to find. The steering wheel always seems to want to go one way or the other when you let go. Not enough to turn the wheels but we'll see when were cruising in a straight line. Even then I don't think you will notice it unless you let go of the steering wheel then it might want to pull slightly. When I turn on the ignition the steering wheel usually kicks a little. My previous power steering did the same thing sometimes. The power seems to be ok but I'm running a 3:1 ratio rack and pinion and stock is 2:1, give or take. I think the feel of it when driving is going to be just about right. The big test will be when in 4x4 full lockout. I'll try that tomorrow when I drive it. There too I think it will be fine. I was sort of susprised that it acted real close to my more mechanical power steering when it was running right. Had about the same power and engaged about the same but smoother and disengaged smoother. Did notice that the motor and controller gets quite warm but that was when going back and forth with the steering while stopped and on a cement floor. So far I'm satisfied with it and feel it's going to work just fine but it is not quite like your car. I have pictures that I will post soon.

Lenny

Thank you lenny,cant wait for the photos.About the letting go of the steering wheel,will we be able to just use one hand with the other around our honey as planed? (LOL)

[Guest Lenny]

Thank you lenny,cant wait for the photos.About the letting go of the steering wheel,will we be able to just use one hand with the other around our honey as planed? (LOL)

Not a problem, you just may not be able to have two honeys and drive no handed.

LEnny