What do you do when

[T-boss 410]

There ya go! Finally fixed!

[Joe Breaux]

19 hours ago, Travis said:

got the new starter on, i turned it over about 20 times for a second or two at a time as to not burn out a new starter, lol, and it never clicked once, spun it right up everytime!!

and this is the first starter i've ever purchased that came with a Quality control PASS paper.

I'm glad this is all behind me, this new starter sounds so much better than that old POS.

But here's what i've been saying to myself the last month or so, " it could be worse, Travis. I could have a Massimo" LOL

 

thats just cold, dude lol

[T-boss 410]

Ain't it, though!

[Joe Breaux]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY  or Happy Holidays if you prefer ... Hope SANTA makes it by your house tonight... I hear He already had the vaccine 

[Travis]

9 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY  or Happy Holidays if you prefer ... Hope SANTA makes it by your house tonight... I hear He already had the vaccine 

Merry Christmas Joe!

[T-boss 410]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Joe, is Santa bringing you a new UTV? Or at least new to you, and not a Massimo?

[Joe Breaux]

2 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

Merry Christmas everyone!

Joe, is Santa bringing you a new UTV? Or at least new to you, and not a Massimo?

sadly, no.. but at least mine is currently running well enough ... hasnt been in the  shop in months 

[T-boss 410]

Did you locate the source of the noise?

[Travis]

I think Joe is going to get 2 front teeth

[T-boss 410]

Are they gonna be gold?😁

[Rustynutzz]

On 10/7/2020 at 1:18 AM, T-boss 410 said:

Would your starter maybe cross reference with a starter from another make? Also, maybe take it to a rebuilding site. I have heard that they do a great job, and it's not all that expensive, at least for the automotive starters. That way you know it's actually been rebuilt and not just cleaned up and put on the shelf as a rebuilt unit. 

Just a few pieces of advice. I'm new to this SXS thing, so if I seem ignorant, I apologize ahead of time. 

This is what I'll do when mine goes.  I'll have it rebuilt locally with quality parts.

[Joe Breaux]

NOT!..lol   sorry, I m 66 and still got all my  original parts including teeth.. well, maybe not 1 or 2, but not the front  .. Gold ,unlike M&Ms, goes on your finger, not in your mouth 

[T-boss 410]

Did you ever track down the noise?

[Joe Breaux]

not yet.. weather is bad .. maybe in a few days I can try again  . Does not seem to affect it in any way... just noise... who knows with Massimo 

[Travis]

36 days of no faults, i started it up to go feed,  killed it, loaded the feed, started right up, drove for a little bit, killed it to pour out the feed, started right up, go back to the barn, close all gates and what not, back to the mule,  Click, Click, Click, with no sign of starting.

luckily being young enough to have some stretch in my muscles, i was able to jump the starter posts, while holding the key in start and she fired up.

 drove back to the house, killed  it, and started without problem, like normal....

 Now, i have plan, if it keeps on doing this and it was not just a one time deal, all i need to do is remove the flywheel housing. that will give me a perfect view of the flywheel and starter gear, so i can see what they're doing when it just clicks, if it's jamming against the flywheel or not....

i hope it was just this one time....

 

[T-boss 410]

Good luck with that. Ahhh, they surely do keep you busy, don't they?

[Travis]

36 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

Good luck with that. Ahhh, they surely do keep you busy, don't they?

Yes sir, they do...

[kenfain]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

36 days of no faults, i started it up to go feed,  killed it, loaded the feed, started right up, drove for a little bit, killed it to pour out the feed, started right up, go back to the barn, close all gates and what not, back to the mule,  Click, Click, Click, with no sign of starting.

luckily being young enough to have some stretch in my muscles, i was able to jump the starter posts, while holding the key in start and she fired up.

 drove back to the house, killed  it, and started without problem, like normal....

 Now, i have plan, if it keeps on doing this and it was not just a one time deal, all i need to do is remove the flywheel housing. that will give me a perfect view of the flywheel and starter gear, so i can see what they're doing when it just clicks, if it's jamming against the flywheel or not....

i hope it was just this one time....

 

Brand new cables?

[Travis]

22 minutes ago, kenfain said:

Brand new cables?

battery cable is original, no voltage drop through the +.

[T-boss 410]

Hate to mention it, but could your new starter have gone bad?

[kenfain]

I'd replace it just to be sure. Several clicks usually means insufficient power. So you should probably eliminate some possibilities here.

[Travis]

7 minutes ago, kenfain said:

I'd replace it just to be sure. Several clicks usually means insufficient power. So you should probably eliminate some possibilities here.

Just looked it up, $9 for the cable. Way less than i was expecting.

Used the Mule some more and it started right up every time.

[kenfain]

I wish mine was that cheap. Factory cable for mine is a bit hard to find, and over a hundred bucks if you find it. I didn't do a hard target search, for the absolute lowest price, but looked for a bit, when my terminal went bad. Saw the price, and made other plans.

Back to yours though, nine bucks is cheap enough. Then you can move on to more expensive possibilities. Like was mentioned above. You should check the amp draw on that new starter. 

[Travis]

52 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

Hate to mention it, but could your new starter have gone bad?

i sure hope not.

I've started it about 5 times since it clicked and it did fine those times.

[Travis]

However, it does seem strange that if it were a cable issue where it can't carry the amperage, why did it spin the starter over just fine when i shorted the solenoid?

and another thing, by me holding the key in start, that's putting voltage on the trigger wire, which retracts the plunger and makes contact with the Big+ to pass currrent to the starter motor , so if i hold the key all the way  in start, the solenoid is engaging, current just isn't being passed through, then when i short the two studs, it passes current to the motor.

 You know, i just wonder if the trigger requires certain amps also?  have to break open my manual..

[kenfain]

It's probably not the cable, but nine bucks is cheap enough to be certain. With something like this it's sometimes hard to tell, unless you have diagnostic equipment. It could very easily be something as elusive as heat getting to the starter.

But if you've got a hot battery, which is easy to check. And new cables. That only leaves a few variables left. Eliminating as many things as possible makes finding the problem much simpler. 

[kenfain]

I had a similar start/no start issue with my wife's civic. It acted the same way. A starter can test good, but still not work properly under load. Higher than normal starter amp draw can cause diagnostic headaches. 

YouTube had several good videos for testing the starter amp draw. It's a very easy test. Unfortunately it takes a type of multimeter that most people don't have. It has to have a hold function, and also be able to work with very low amperage. The low amp capability is the hard to find part.

A fluke meter that fits those requirements, is several hundred dollars. But I found a cheap Chinese meter for around fifteen bucks. You just have to look around on the internet. They're out there, and it can be a handy tool for just this sort of thing. 

I was working with a known starter amp draw value. So I knew exactly what it should have been. With yours, you'd have to do some research. I'd probably start with trying to contact the company that sold it. 

Since you're working with all new parts, it could be just about anything. That's why I'd replace all the things that just work without any chance of malfunction. Things like cables, that when new, have almost zero possibility of being the problem. 

It also gives you a chance to reaffirm that all the connections are good. My thoughts would be that the starter is the most likely problem. But that makes me wonder why your machine is suddenly so hard on starters? 

 

[Travis]

36 minutes ago, kenfain said:

But that makes me wonder why your machine is suddenly so hard on starters? 

 

 I had that thought too, i've spun it over by hand through the 4 cycles  when i was dealing with the last starter and it felt like  any other  small engine in that horsepower range, no  hang ups or anything so i  don't think my engine is  causing an excess load.

[kenfain]

Could be the starter's mounting angle. Some cars have shims for this issue. Or maybe an internal manufacturing defect. 

It could be the solenoid, or the wiring. Or the ignition switch itself. Possibly the relay.

One thing that can cause intermittent electrical problems, is the grounding. There should be a braided  ground strap, or wire, in addition to the main negative terminal cable. Most vehicles have them for a reason. 

All this speculation is the reason I mention the amp draw first. That's a real number, and not subject to change with each start. So it isn't affected by anything else. It quickly rules out, or points to the starter as the culprit. Because the engine takes the same effort to turn over, each, and every time.

Unless you're ready to start replacing parts, hoping to get lucky. You'll have to test each component individually. 

Also I'd load test the battery. Voltage testing isn't enough. I test my batteries three different ways. Hydrometer, voltage, and the load test, which is the best for knowing battery condition. These tests all tell something slightly different, while confirming what the other tests show. A new battery isn't really proof of anything. It's unlikely, but they can go bad early on. 

[Mackc]

On 10/6/2020 at 10:32 PM, Travis said:

you're sick of chinese Crap but really can't afford the good OEM part?

Starter on the mule, i finally replaced the old D&B electrical starter (on august 28th) on it that was at least 5 years old with probably a million starts on it and apparently D&B no longer makes it/sells it, so i bought a $53 starter from CHYNA on amazon.. on august 19th, well here it is barely 1.5 months later, it clicks several times before it will spin over, all connections were good and i tested the key switch, and trigger wire voltage as well as the starter relay according to the service manual and they all check out. usually a tap with a hammer or if i turn the key back and forth fast several times it will kick in and start. would it be worth my time to remove the starter and lube it??

I've got the Denso and Kawasaki part numbers but boy... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

even a Reman denso is $230.

does anyone know of a decent aftermarket starter maker that might have one?

i've 12.5 volts at the big cable, and i get the same at the trigger wire as the manual states, but when its in F or R i get no voltage at the trigger, so i know the Neutral safety is working properly.

and if anyone can find one the DB starter was 190-542 18450

Okay, Maybe it ain't the STARTER! Maybe you havent checked all the possibilities;

Battery dead cell Batteries are cheaper than starters, and often go bad.

Bad connectioin to solinoid,

start switch

Poor ground?

Did you ever switch batteries?

or boost the battery, or bypass the battery cable with a booster cable,

or maybe your flywheel is bad.   Kawasakies have way too many electronic safety things, some of them could be intermittened